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Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:55 am
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What else can I say my friend?!!! 8) :)


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Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 11:41 am
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Ceri,

Was there anything more to rounding your frets? Just wondering because I think I could go out and get any guitar and dress the frets better if needed.

BTW, excellant work. Loving the neck. This guitar is going to look very cool. Are you planning to post a youtube-like post for how it sounds when you are finished?

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Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:13 pm
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To everyone: thank you! :D
rkreisher wrote:
Was there anything more to rounding your frets? Just wondering because I think I could go out and get any guitar and dress the frets better if needed.

Hi RK: yes, I certainly hope you could. As mentioned, my frets haven't been dressed yet. Levelling, crowning and dressing is the last thing of all, once the neck is finished. If you buy a guitar with fret ends looking like those in the last photo - take it back!! :lol:

So far I just gave the fret ends a quick once over with the file to take off any sharp burrs that might be uncomfortable while continuing work on the neck.

fman600 wrote:
Can we get a closeup shot of the new waterslide?

Hi fman600: what, the decal that almost looks as if it has been Photoshopped to blur it and make it hard to read? :wink:

In fact, I build guitars only for the sport: nothing is for sale. But still, it would seem bad manners to advertise here on Fender's website...

Xhefri wrote:
For some reason I thought you might add a touch of vintage tint to the Maple before putting frets in? The slightly aged yellowish tint would go great with the color of your body. (Personal prefs!).

Hey Zhefri: strange thing: I seem to be in a minority because my taste goes the other way. I like necks as pale as possible. It's the top-of-the-milk look for me - that lacquer is already too yellow for my preferences! :lol: But don't worry, it'll darken quite quickly, whether I like it or not...

Not many photos today, but they actually represent quite a bit of work.

Many of us like the rolled fingerboard edges on our US Fenders. It's one of my favorite features. Fender do that as a production line method of emulating the feel of a very well used neck with the edges nicely worn and softened.

However, others have been doing it for longer. To the best of my knowledge James Tyler of Tyler Guitars was the first to deliberately smooth his fretboard edges over. He says that was to simulate the feel of an old '50s or '60s (don't remember which) Strat neck he has that got that way with heavy use over many years. Unlike Fender's factory method Tyler scrapes and files the fingerboard edges after fretting, so that the effect is only between the frets' ends. Which is a helluvalot more work, obviously.

The major advantage of this is that the top of the fret runs the fullest possible width of the neck, without its span being compromised by having to follow a pre-rolled fingerboard edge. For those of us that hate the occasional high e string falling off the end of the fret under heavy playing that can be a crucial difference.

I first read about James Tyler's approach many years ago and have been "Tylerising" fingerboards ever since. So that's what we'll do now.

There is a battery of tools we might use for this:
Image

But in fact I won't bother with most of those. I'm just going to use this odd little scraper:
Image

I in fact bought that from a kitchen range supplier, sold for the purpose of scraping heavily burnt on grease from the surfaces of industrial cooking equipment (ew!!). I have no idea what it is actually manufactured for, but it is ideal for small bits of controlled wood scraping in tight spots.

I do a 45 degree bevel along the edge to the depth of preference, and then round that over into a curve. The difference can be seen in the middle section here:
Image

And from another angle:
Image

I did just one fret there so that you could see a before-and-after example. But what I do for real is to first carve that 45 degree bevel into every position on both sides of the neck - that way I can see that I've done it the same up and down the 'board. Then I set to rounding them all over, lessening the curve at either end as it nears the frets. After that I go at them all with sandpaper, starting with P80 and finishing on about P320.

It's a lot of work to get the effect regular along the full length of the neck! Here are some pictures in raking light to convey the finished result:
Image

To be absolutely clear, this is nothing to do with an Yngwie Malmsteen scalloped neck: that is something completely different. This is just on the edges - the face of the 'board remains flat along its length:
Image

One more:
Image

All together, I think that wins us an extra millimetre or more of playable top surface to the frets, in relation to a factory rolled edge. For those who believe their hands can tell the difference between a 42 and a 43 mm nut that is meaningful.

This particular neck is at the heavily curved end of the fingerboard edge spectrum. I've done others with a lighter curve, but I've come to think that the further we are prepared to go with it the more comfortable the final neck is under the left hand. I can't recommend this highly enough: to me it will be one of the most important "hand-made" features of the finished instrument. Worth the effort.

That took me as much time as I have to spare today. Tomorrow I have one more time-consuming "luthier" touch for you...

Cheers - C


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Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:25 pm
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Ceri wrote:
To everyone: thank you! :D
rkreisher wrote:
Was there anything more to rounding your frets? Just wondering because I think I could go out and get any guitar and dress the frets better if needed.

Hi RK: yes, I certainly hope you could. As mentioned, my frets haven't been dressed yet. Levelling, crowning and dressing is the last thing of all, once the neck is finished. If you buy a guitar with fret ends looking like those in the last photo - take it back!! :lol:

So far I just gave the fret ends a quick once over with the file to take off any sharp burrs that might be uncomfortable while continuing work on the neck.


Cheers - C


I have seen guitars with fret ends that look like that last picture in stores. I was just asking because you showed the filing and sanding and it looks relatively easy. Of course you have made this whole project look easy and have skills that I currently do not possess.

My daughter's frets look like that last picture. The frets are not as high, but the edges look similar. I do not like playing that guitar but for a $100 Lace Huntington, what did I expect. She did not want the MIM Fenders or Squiers we looked at. (Eh, that is why I say cosmetics are over-rated. The guitar looks good, sounds decent, but a little rough on the fingers.)

Too late to take it back and she seems to like it, just not willing to spend time to learn. She just looks at it. I think I may have seen her playing/practicing 12 times in the last year. I was hoping to hae one of my children be interested in playing. When they were younger, they liked watching me play, then they found out it takes time to learn.

Looking forward to the next installment.

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Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:36 pm
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Ceri, I have never seen a fretboard edge rounded in this fashion. The filing work is immaculately uniform. :shock:
I have issues with my high E rolling off the frets. I have had to lay off the vibrato a bunch to keep it from happening. Maybe I need to try a Tyler/Ceri rolled fingerboard.
Thanks for all your effort and time documenting this build for all us newbs. You are a class act!

Happy Holidays


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Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:37 am
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rkreisher wrote:
I have seen guitars with fret ends that look like that last picture in stores. I was just asking because you showed the filing and sanding and it looks relatively easy... My daughter's frets look like that last picture. The frets are not as high, but the edges look similar. I do not like playing that guitar but for a $100 Lace Huntington, what did I expect... Too late to take it back and she seems to like it...

Hi again RK: hey, then stick around just a little bit longer. :D

Soon as the back of the neck is carved we'll get on to fret levelling and dressing. I have tools for that, but I shall also show how to do simple fret dressing without specialist tools and in a way anyone can do to improve unsatisfactory fret ends.

As usual, we can hopefully strip out the voodoo and show that it ain't too hard after all...

And to thewood1987: you are a class act yourself! Thank you kindly. 8)

Cheers - C


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Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:11 am
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Outstanding Sir!

Wish there was a way to do that to an already finished neck! Besides years of playing which would do that naturally. I find my neck a bit too 'sharp' on the edge.

Many thanks,
-T


[/quote]

One more:
Image

All together, I think that wins us an extra millimetre or more of playable top surface to the frets, in relation to a factory rolled edge. For those who believe their hands can tell the difference between a 42 and a 43 mm nut that is meaningful.

Cheers - C[/quote]


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Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:29 am
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Quote:
Soon as the back of the neck is carved we'll get on to fret levelling and dressing. I have tools for that, but I shall also show how to do simple fret dressing without specialist tools and in a way anyone can do to improve unsatisfactory fret ends.

As usual, we can hopefully strip out the voodoo and show that it ain't too hard after all...

Let's see.....what's the popular culture say about this???
"So simple even a caveman can do it" 8)

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Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:47 am
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fantastic ceri, I hope we get a video or at least a sound sample of how this one ends up sounding, if it's as half as good as it looks you're onto a winner.

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Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 12:41 pm
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Awesome work Ceri!
I was actually getting ready to ask you if you were going to roll the edges. I love the rolled edges on my 57 AVRI Strat. It makes the Strat that much more comfy.

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Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:52 pm
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tyronne wrote:
Wish there was a way to do that to an already finished neck! Besides years of playing which would do that naturally. I find my neck a bit too 'sharp' on the edge.

Hi tyronne: well as it happens I have done it on finished aftermarket necks too. I'm the wrong end of the country to do you a photo of a WD Music neck I did it to - but it works just the same. The only thing is you have to retouch the lacquer where you file/scrape/sand it off, and you need to get several coats on that little section because it is the bit that gets the most wear of all. But allowing for that, it is perfectly do-able. Have a go, perhaps?

Today we again have few photos standing for quite a bit of fiddly work.

It won't have escaped your notice that taking the tang off the bottom of the frets near their ends leaves a row of open slots down the side of the neck, as in this photo from a couple of days ago:
Image

When manufacturers bother to remove the end of the tang like that there are standard ways of filling those slots. The easiest is to just smear wood filler in there: a few seconds work per neck to apply and a couple of minutes more later on to sand it flat. Simple.

The disadvantage of that is that wood filler never really looks quite like the wood surrounding it: slots filled that way tend to catch the eye a bit.

There is another much more time consuming approach. We'll do that one! :D

First we take an off cut of sycamore from the very neck blank this neck came out of - saved for just this purpose. In the next pic we also see a very nice tool I happen to have; this brass backed Razor Saw. Not the same saw as seen slotting the fingerboard; this one is just 0.010 thou' wide with 40 non-set teeth per inch. Really intended for jewellers it also has many uses for us, most particularly in making the string slots for nuts (as we shall see later):
Image

As you see, I've cut a row of matchstick-like pieces into that scrap of sycamore, each one a slightly different size, for reasons that shall become clear:
Image

Once separated I can use sandpaper to true them up and also to shape the stick so that it is a little wider on one edge than the other:
Image

So that when I then cut them into tiny slices each segment has a slightly wedge shaped profile. Also, either end of the wedge has the grain in the right orientation to match that of the side of the neck when it goes into those slots. Getting the grain to match is the whole point of this obsessive little exercise:
Image

We then take some wood glue (Titebond) and water it down by about ten percent so that it will wick into gaps more readily. The idea is that we've made our wedges in a range of sizes so that one or another will fit any of our fret slots. However, real life doesn't usually work out quite as neatly as that, and in fact we frequently find ourselves holding one of those tiny wedges in the tweezers while carefully tailoring it to fit an individual slot with a little diamond file:
Image

Anyway, one by one we glue those wedges into the slots. They mustn't fit so well that they travel right in and meet the fret tang inside. That would mean if the neck shrinks a touch in dry weather the tang would press against the wedge and maybe push it out, or cause cracking in the lacquer, or some such. So we want there to be a tiny gap between the metal tang and the wooden plug - which is why they are wedge shaped:
Image

That really is a tiresome job. Some of them need fine shaping, some of them break on the way in - and several get dropped on the floor and prove impossible to find...! One side nearly done looks like this:
Image

We give it an hour or two for the glue to dry, and then simply slice the surplus bits off with a scalpel:
Image

Then sand flush. There is a nice technique for this which I can't really demonstrate one-handed while holding the camera with the other. But the idea is you cut a little strip of sandpaper, as in the next pic. Then you can place one finger over the spot you want to sand and with the other hand pull the sandpaper through beneath the fingertip. Presto: a very precise sanding machine. A pull or two at right-angles to one another is usually enough to sand these wedges flat:
Image

Once that is all done we can turn the neck over and do the other side. And when both are finished it looks something like this:
Image

And this:
Image

Those wedges will never be absolutely invisible - I can't match the tiny bits of wood quite well enough for that! But it is the next best thing. Curiously, this hasn't been done on most of my production line Fenders. Either the fret tangs come right to the surface, as on my MIJ Strat, or the tang is cut off and the slot filled with wood filler, as on my MIA Strats.

However, the exception is my Made In Korea Lite Ash Telecaster. On that one this job has been done in just this way, using tiny wedges of the same wood as the neck. It looks very good too - and is yet another detail on that instrument that belies its modest price tag. I can't imagine how they can spare the time to do this on a factory line guitar - they must have some faster working method I don't know about. Whatever: I can't give enough praise to the work of that Korean factory - which is why I'm so dismayed by the things Forum user guitslinger has been telling us about less than ideal working conditions there. Very troubling...

Anyway. We now want to get some lacquer onto those fretboard edges to seal them, and also achieve the seal between fret and fingerboard discussed in an earlier post. You will recall that the 'board already has four coats of lacquer on it, so we're adding to that at this stage.

As is well known, Fender spray over neck and frets together and then remove the lacquer from the tops of the frets prior to or during fret levelling. It will amaze you to learn that I have a more anally retentive way of doing this: I mask just the tops of the frets with thin strips of tape, leaving the lower sides of the frets bare to accept a thin coat of lacquer to seal them to the fingerboard. Here's my masking:
Image

And a close-up (oops, I seem to have scuffed a couple of bits):
Image

(Blue frets and red dots look kinda funky, don't they? :D I wonder if there's a way to get blue frets for real...)

That's actually much quicker to do than it may look. And much faster than masking the fingerboard between the frets, which we shall have to do later during fret dressing... :(

Masking fingerboards is one of those silly little jobs that really irritates me. Oh well...

By the way: in the last few posts you'll have seen quite a bit of those 1970s type cork table mats. Deeply unfashionable I know - but their uses for carpentry and guitar making are so many I'm just surprised Stewart-MacDonald haven't stared selling them yet! :lol:

See you next time - C


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Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:21 pm
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Sweet!

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Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:28 pm
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If the fret is to be leveled then crowned, wouldnt that take the majority of the lacquer off it, and still leave the bottom of the fret fairly well sealed? I always thought fender level, crown then lacquer, which is why you get lacquered fret tops.

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Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:36 pm
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Ceri wrote:
tyronne wrote:
Wish there was a way to do that to an already finished neck! Besides years of playing which would do that naturally. I find my neck a bit too 'sharp' on the edge.

Hi tyronne: well as it happens I have done it on finished aftermarket necks too. I'm the wrong end of the country to do you a photo of a WD Music neck I did it to - but it works just the same. The only thing is you have to retouch the lacquer where you file/scrape/sand it off, and you need to get several coats on that little section because it is the bit that gets the most wear of all. But allowing for that, it is perfectly do-able. Have a go, perhaps?


If you think it's do-able...I will try it.
Many thanks. I'll make sure to save the post that you wrote up.
-t


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Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:27 pm
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nikininja wrote:
If the fret is to be leveled then crowned, wouldnt that take the majority of the lacquer off it, and still leave the bottom of the fret fairly well sealed? I always thought fender level, crown then lacquer, which is why you get lacquered fret tops.


that's been my assumption too.

jeez-louise Ceri, how long did it take you to do all those wedges? If your Lite Ash was done like that, Korean workers must be getting paid even less than I thought. I wonder how it might look if instead of wedges or wood filler, a guy made sawdust paste out of some of the matching leftover wood, and used that instead? I am starting to feel a little sad that this project is nearing completion.

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