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Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:31 am
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It just keeps getting better & better Ceri.

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Post subject: ceri
Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:14 am
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ceri, the real mccoy...

WOW :shock: , man you really are a creative cat..
really, ceri, what cant you do?


hey 12bar, i dont doubt he can at all. :wink:

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Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:57 pm
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People: thank you kindly! My face is permanently as red as this guitar with all the blushing it has to do... :oops:

On this:
Twelvebar wrote:
Ceri, this is in a box, posted, and on it's way across the pond:
Image

Nah - you haven't left me enough to do there. It's nearly finished; no challange at all.

Send me one of these instead. We'll take it from there:
Image

So: dots. After curing overnight my resin dots look like this:
Image

Possibly there has been a tiny amount of shrinkage, it's hard to know, but they're still sitting nice and proud of the surface as we hoped. Now, to level them we can't just go at them with sandpaper because they are much harder than the surrounding wood: the wood would start to get a dip in it before the dots were flat.

But help is on hand. Here's my Dremel mounted in its Precision Router Base and with a grinding bit inserted:
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Immediately you can see what's coming (this is the 500th build photo on this thread, by the way. I just mention it in case Ron Kirn is looking in. He knows what I'm getting at...):
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We do a series of passes, dropping the height a touch each time:
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And:
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Till we have a nice flat dot marker requiring only the briefest touch up with some fine sandpaper:
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We obviously repeat that on all the other dots, as well as the side markers. Don't worry: the side dot that doesn't look quite circular in the top picture ended up round when it was levelled. You'll see plenty more of all those dots in the next couple of days...

Next, this is as good a moment as any to cut the nut slot. Here's a nice Henry Taylor Sheffield Steel wood carver's chisel with a 3mm / 1/8" blade bought especially for Strat nut slots. Also, with the mushroom shaped handle is a wood engraver's tool called a "graver". That's useful too:
Image

For some reason Stew-Mac's fretting template deliberately makes the nut slot too narrow. Hard to imagine anyone wants one thinner than Fender spec, but there you are. The first job is to widen the slot to a standard 1/8" size. The front edge (towards the fingerboard) is in the right place, so we widen towards the headstock:
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Since the chisel is exactly the right size it is the perfect guide to getting the slot right:
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And from above it shows us whether we're getting the sides parallel or not. Oops, not quite perfect yet:
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Now that graver comes into its own for cutting out the corners to nice sharp right-angles:
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Here's another shot of the blade, just so's you can see better how it does its job:
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In the next pic the slot isn't quite finished - not quite true yet. But I took the photo to show you that pin-knot I placed in this position in order to lose it beneath the nut. You will see that a tiny fragment of wood has chipped out of it from the surface of the fingerboard:
Image

That is annoying. We can easily repair it with some filler, but that potentially will show after the lacquer has gone on. Filler never exactly matches the surrounding wood.

However, in this case it won't matter. I have a plan which coincidentally will conveniently hide that blemish. I'm not going to tell you what that is yet: we'll leave it as a tiny little bit of suspense for a couple of days... :lol:

And here ya go. The neck with its wine red dots and nut slot in place:
Image

Beginning to look like a real neck, isn't it?

Next, I lacquered the fingerboard. I didn't photograph it - I reckoned we've seen quite enough of spraying on this thread. However, I'll fill you in on my thinking...

Fender are well known for spraying their lacquer after installing the frets. The lacquer then gets scraped off the tops of the frets prior to or during levelling and dressing them. Occasionally people post on this Forum complaining about lacquer on the sides of the frets as if that was a sloppy mistake. But in fact it is there for a reason: it seals the join between fret and fingerboard and helps keep moisture from hands from penetrating under there and attacking the wood. Not vital (after all, you don't have that on an unlacquered rosewood 'board), but a useful detail.

However, a glance at the excellent neck building photos on Mike DeTemple's website shows he likes to lacquer his maple 'boards before fretting them:

http://www.detempleguitars.com/temp/build_intro.php

Click on the links on that page to see a real master at work.

I guess his view is that he wants lacquer protecting the wood beneath the fret - or maybe he just doesn't like the lacquer-on-sides-of-frets look.

Mr DeTemple's work process is different than mine because he installs the dots, then lacquers the neck, then cuts the fret slots. I like to make my fret slots first and find the position for the dots from them, because I think I can more accurately place the dots that way. Shockingly impudent of me to point it out but in his photos one or two of Mike DeTemple's dots don't look absolutely perfectly placed between the frets, and that is possibly why.

So I can't lacquer the neck till my slots are cut and dots in position - we can't install the dots after the lacquer, obviously. You might think this risks getting lacquer into the fret slots and spoiling their fit, but in fact that is not going to be an issue here. Tomorrow you'll see why.

In any case, mine is a belt-and-braces approach, because I do about four coats of lacquer now and another two after the frets have gone on. I want the advantages of both Mike DeTemple's approach and Fender's.

That's obsessive compulsiveness for you! :D

All I've got time for today I'm afraid. Things to do, people to see...

I'll show you the lacquered neck tomorrow.

Cheers - C


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Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:22 pm
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Nice progress Ceri, I was wondering how you would level the markers, now i know. :wink:

I have an Idea about how you will deal with that tearout at the nut, I hope i am right, but I also hope you will break out a new trick too! (something that appeared here, with a cow bone involved might do nicely.)

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Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 9:10 am
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I love the red dots .
I can say how much I've learned watching this all come together.
-N 8)


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Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 1:21 pm
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This thread is so cool. I always find myself coming straight to this thread when I get on the net to see if there is more progress. :lol:

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Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 1:38 pm
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Holy CAPOW WAHZOOM Batman did you see that neck!!!!

Nice Ceri

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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 5:36 pm
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'Evening, guys: a day late, the next episode.

Shall we do some fretting?

People get very worked up about installing frets, as if there is strange black arts voodoo involved in doing it right. However, I hope to show that it really is not so scary - and as usual, if I can do it anyone can.

BTW: there is divided opinion on when to fret the neck, far as small scale building is concerned. Martin Oakham and Mike DeTemple amongst others like to carve the back of the neck before fretting: Martin Koch and Melvyn Hiscock both fret first and carve after. Melvyn says the frets help strengthen the neck and protect the fingerboard while working on the back, and in any case the flat uncarved back of the neck blank makes fretting easier. I'll go with Melvyn this time around - but either way is fine.

Here's the neck slotted and now with four coats of lacquer on the fingerboard. I think I forgot to mention that unlike the body, which I've done start to finish with waterbased lacquer, I am using polyurethane on the neck. The hardest finish for the bit that takes the most wear, that's the thinking:
Image

I want to do as much of the finishing work as possible before the frets go on, so I then sanded the lacquer back with wet-and-dry P600, checking for straightness yet further with the edge of a steel rule, as during radiusing the 'board. We don't buff at this stage, partly because the lacquer hasn't cured enough and partly because I will be adding a couple more coats after the frets are on, as described in the previous post.

Next, we need to open out the fret slots a little, which at the same time will take care of any lacquer that has got in there.

The reason for this is that my fret saw is made to exactly 0.023" wide, to cut a slot that perfectly matches Stew-Mac's own fretwire. However, most other fretwire is made to different specs, and that goes for mine. The tang on my fret wire is 0.82mm / 0.032" wide, so the slots have to be widened a little to match:
Image

This is because installing fret wire into slots not wide enough for the tang can have a tendency to force the neck into back-bow. In fact, this is sometimes done deliberately, for example on old acoustic guitar necks that don't have trussrods and are found to be front-bowing too much. The intention is counteract one bow with another, and in that situation the process is known as "compression fretting".

But we definitely don't want to do that on a new neck, especially one with a nice double-action trussrod installed! I haven't shown it very well in the next photo, but I have in fact glued this sandpaper to a small piece of metal - culled from the bottom of a sardine tin, that being exactly the right thickness... Together they add up to about 0.7mm / 0.028", which with a little sanding on both sides of each fret slot will widen them just the right amount:
Image

Exacting stuff, huh?

Next, I've made a simple card gauge to show the depth of my fret tangs. We just need to check each fret slot across its full width to make sure they are all deep enough for the frets. Nothing so frustrating as installing a fret only to find it won't go all the way in. Lot's of remedial work involved in taking it out and repairing any damage the barbs have caused prior to reinstalling it:
Image

Though actually, no adjustments were needed: I got my slots right when cutting 'em. :D

The next step is precautionary. Martin Oakham, in his book Build Your Own Electric Guitar, recommends opening out the top of each fret slot a touch with a three cornered file, like my little diamond file in the next pic. He says this helps a lot with refretting, the barbs on the old frets causing significantly less damage to the slots as they are lifted out.

No Ceri neck has needed refretting yet, so this is completely theoretical so far in my experience. But I'll take Martin at his word and do the procedure. One day I may be glad:
Image

You've seen my fretwire's specs. Now meet the wire itself. I get this from a famous tonewood supplier in my country, Dave Dyke. I don't actually know which brand this wire is, but as you see it conveniently comes ready radiused, so at least we don't need to do that particular tedious process. A glance at the specs in the diagram above will show that this is just about as jumbo as jumbo fretwire gets. These are seriously meaty frets:
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And a close-up, for those as are unfamiliar with what fretwire looks like beneath the waterline:
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Next, we simply cut it into lengths for the 22 frets - a little longer than each fret slot. The time-honored method is to keep them ready in a little wooden holder made for the purpose, like this:
Image

The next step is not essential and Fender don't always to it. But it is a widely applied luthier touch and we'll definitely go for it. We cut off the last few mil of the tang on each side from beneath the fret, so that it won't quite reach the edge of the fingerboard. That is obviously essential if there is a solid binding on the outside of the 'board, but it is a nice idea on unbound 'boards too, because it greatly reduces the unpleasant effects of fret sprout, and makes it easier to deal with when it happens.

Bill Collings of Collings Guitars invented a beautiful little tool for doing this job, called the "fret tang nipper". Stew-Mac, amongst others, sell it and I've been meaning to buy one for years. Unfortunately I've never got round to it, so I have to file my fret tangs off on a grinder. This requires some care because it is easy to go too far and spoil the underside of the fret itself. However, on this job I only wasted one fret that way - here are some trimmed frets for you to judge my touch:
Image

Next, if we had a fret press we'd now probably sit all the frets in their slots with our fingers, prior to working down the neck with the press and pushing them home. Like this:
Image

If I were fretting several necks a day I'd get myself a press - they are not too expensive. However, with my tiny output it is fine to do it the old fashioned way - with a hammer. Before that, we touch on the vexed question of glue in fretting. The traditional way is just to hammer the fret home dry. At the other extreme are those who remove the barbs from the frets and hold them in place entirely with glue - aliphatic (wood) glue, hide glue, epoxy or cyanoacrylate (super) glue.

Then there are "hybrid" methods - a combination of glue and the fret's own barb. Another approach is to brush water into the fret slot so that the fibres of the wood swell a bit and hold the fret more securely. And another variation is to do that but mix in a percentage of wood glue to the water - another hybrid approach:
Image

I shall be brushing in some water with a little sable brush, but leaving the glue to one side. The purist in me wants the frets to be held only by their own barb in a well-cut slot - I'll leave the glue for refrets. However, there are as many variations as there are guys installing frets, and none are right or wrong. I'd be fascinated to hear what the likes of cvilleira and Martian have to say on this particular subject...?

So all I do is gradually work my way up the neck wetting the slot a little and hammering the frets into place, using this type of hammer:
Image

Stew-Mac sell various hammers for fretting - or you can buy one like mine for next to nothing from any decent tool shop.

As we saw, the frets are already radiused, and it is important that they are bent a little more than the radius of the fingerboard. My 'board has a 12" radius, if you recall, and as near as I can judge the frets have around a nine inch curve on them. The idea being that you first hammer in both ends, like this:
Image

And then hammer the rest of the fret in, moving outwards from the middle towards either end. The ends of the fret will move outwards slightly as the middle comes down, taking the outer barbs slightly away from the groove they made on their way down into the slot. That's the theory, anyway:
Image

And here's the neck with all the frets in place. You can perhaps see that their ends are hammered to curve downwards a bit extra. That is a touch recommended by Dan Erlewine to seat the fret ends as snugly as possible:
Image

And from above:
Image

Now we need to cut off the surplus fret ends. We sometimes have good and less good things to say about Stewart-MacDonald, but this next tool of theirs is unbeatable, in my experience. This is simply the best pair of front end snips on the planet as far as I've ever found - and I've spent more time looking than seems reasonable! :lol: They are no more expensive than a good quality pair from a tool shop, either - and these are so much better made. A vote of thanks to Stew-Mac for these:
Image

Because they cut right up to the front of the jaw you can bring them hard up against the edge of the neck and snip the fret off right where you want to:
Image

Useful to put a little light downward pressure on the pliers as you cut (with my thumb in the pic), in order to avoid accidentally doing the opposite and risking lifting the end of the fret out of its slot with the force of the snip.

Things get a little congested up the dusty end, but it's not too difficult to cope:
Image

And there you go: frets neatly trimmed to length:
Image

And not too much wastage, either:
Image

Now, we're not going to level, crown and dress the frets at this stage - that comes last of all. However, we just need to file all the fret ends a tiny bit to take off any sharp burrs and just begin the process of rounding them. This is simply to make the neck more comfortable to handle as we work on it over the next few days. We could use this long flat file:
Image

Or this nice diamond coated steel block:
Image

Though in fact that is quite expensive and I'd rather save it for levelling the frets. Frankly, a sheet of dry emery paper on a cork sanding block is as good as anything, and it is surprising how fast this sands back the metal:
Image

A close-up hopefully shows how the rounding of the fret ends has already begun with only a few strokes of the file and then the emery paper:
Image

And there we are: frets happily installed. One of the great mysteries of guitar building opened up to the light.

I may have an unexpected detail or two for you tomorrow. So don't be late! :D

Cheers y'all - C


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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 6:00 pm
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Lov'in your work Ceri!

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GOOD JOB!! :D

Enjoy!

Andy

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Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 4:37 am
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Nice!! That ipod is gonna put some extra pages to this thread:D

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Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:00 am
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When do these great Ceri necks come onto the market? :wink:

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Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:05 am
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Randy1 wrote:
When do these great Ceri necks come onto the market? :wink:


No joke. Id pay to have you build one for me Ceri. Keep up the good work.


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Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 7:53 am
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Splendid job as usual.

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Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 8:22 am
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Can we get a closeup shot of the new waterslide?


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Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:23 am
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Great! I have watched a refret job once, but never a new project. For some reason I thought you might add a touch of vintage tint to the Maple before putting frets in? The slightly aged yellowish tint would go great with the color of your body. (Personal prefs!). Looking forward to the back shaping, final finish and then the headstock logo "Ceri's Pyrocaster"! Thanks for doing this for all of us Mr. C!

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Last edited by Xhefri on Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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