I'm sure I read somewhere that strong pickup pull can cause intonation problems,have you looked into that?

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Particularly on G strings where the polepiece is set higher. Looking at the photo of the OP's guitar they dont appear to be too high. Hard to tell from a photo though.

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No no and no

It is possible that you simply have a bad string. Try replacing it first before resorting to these more radical remedies.

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You dig?

UPDATE

The measurement from inside of nut to inside of tremelo plate is 25-1/32" .


I put brand new Ernie Ball not-even-slinky strings on and lowered all of the pickups as far as they go. I tried turning the tremelo post a quater turn.

The problem is still there. Nothing changed.

However, I tried capo-ing at the 1st fret and setting the intonation at the 13th fret. This worked. The saddle is adjusted to the middle of its adjustment and the intonation is spot on. But when I take the capo off and check at the 12th fret, intonation is off again. Seems to me like this would indicate that something funky is going on at the nut.

Any ideas?

The capo pinching the strings and compressing them against the first fret accounts for that 'ghost' measurement where it would work. Naturally, removing the hump of the first fret in other words, removing the capo puts you right back where you started.

FWIW, your problem is not all that rare. Even with the best of CNC machines and programming, stuff like this (obviously) does manifest itself.

Sight unseen, all bases have been pretty much covered. Before any cutting, filing, grinding or any other irreversible and possibly ineffective remedy, I'd recommend you really should have it eyeballed by a pro. It could additionally be something as simple as a burr in the bridge saddle, a warped intonation screw, an improper seating of the string in the nut and the list can continue to go on and on. Conversely, it could be that the bridge was in fact, installed OEM too far forward. This is why I say, a trained, experienced eye and his or her opinion is now what is called for and most appropriate.

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You dig?

UPDATE

I adjusted the truss rod as the relief at the 8th fret was about 1mm. Now it is about 0.5mm. Also lowered the action from being quite high (personal preference) to a more typical height. Then I adjusted the intonation. The G string saddle is still bottomed out but it is VERY close to perfect intonation. Overall, all the saddles move away from the tremelo tail to a more normal position.

So perhaps the intonation problem was caused by a combination of heavy strings, high action, high relief, and perhaps shrinkage due to wintertime low humidity.

In other words, the the guitar needed a setup?

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You dig?

Any time you use a gauge of strings other than the gauge the guitar was "set up" for the set up will be off including intonation. Are you using standard tuning or is this to be an Eb detuned guitar? Detuned I hope for your guitar's sake. Also despite the advise to the contrary you received earlier in this thread don't trust your ears over a tuner and don't trust harmonics over fundamentals. Contrary to popular opinion your ears will lie to you unless you have trained your ears with a properly calibrated tuner. Almost every guitarist thinks he/she has a great ear but unfortunately almost nobody has a perfect ear until they have trained themselves. Also harmonics can become confused if the strings are not brand new or as in your case are not appropriately matched to the guitar. FMIC designs its guitars to use either 9s or 10s. Issues always arise when users go outside of that range.

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Just think of how awesome a guitar player you could have been by now if you had only spent the last 10 years practicing instead of obsessing over pickups and roasted maple necks.

So BMW how do you get round odd order harmonics then? How do you reduce needle flicker and inaccurate readings? The basic rule of guitar setup is, "If you cant hear the difference between right and wrong put the tools down". Are you telling me that anyone with 6 months experience cant hear the differerence between a 12 fret harmonic and the 12th fret fretted note on any string. If your hearings still that bad after 6 months you need to find a new hobby.

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No no and no

I disagree, you don't need an expensive or specialized tuner to set intonation. Try turning the tone knob down, it helps with 'needle flicker'.

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Ok what about sympathetic resonance? What about cross talk from strings? What about excessively sustaining resonance still favouring the harmonic at the 12th? All big faults with plug in tuners. Built in mic' tuners are a little more accurate but you need a silent enviroment before you start, then they still pick up odd order harmonics that still come through even with the tone control zero'd. Dont get me started on those gimmick clip on tuners that read wood vibration.

Theres a right way to do it, and theres tuners for lazy people that dont want accuracy. I dont advocate using a tuner at all. Your ears are far more accurate at communicating the difference between 2 notes of the same pitch than your eyes will ever be. Reason being they have done it all your life, subconciously.

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No no and no

This is what I use, and it works just fine..



Years ago I did some tech work for Elvis Baskette. He's an accomplished Engineer and Producer. Some of his recent work includes Producer of Chevelle's Vena Sera and This Kind Of Thinking, Alter Bridge's Blackbird, I Am Ghost's Lovers Requiem. Also engineered Incubus' Make Yourself and Three Days Grace.

That's the tuner he recommended I use when I was setting up guitars for one of his recordings. Dude has an ear from hell!!

Nikki, you would be a great Engineer with your style of thinking. That's exactly what separates the pros from the pretenders. If you can do that with intonation, then you really are gifted, and I'm not saying that sarcastically. You can save a lot of time that way. Elvis has that gift as well.

However, in his type of work, even he would say that after long hours your ears can get tired. That's when it can just be easier to use the Boss. He specifically liked the sensitivity of the needle on this model. Yes, it flickers, but you have to get used to working around it's quirkiness. Once you understand those quirks, it's pretty easy.

This is how we'd do it.

Like M.Brown pointed out, you may need to turn the Vol. down on most Humbucker equipped guitars. Always use the bridge PU on 2-Hum guitars. And sometimes you can be better off using a middle pickup on Hum-Sing-Hum guitars due to lower output of the pickup. It's a good idea to switch around, and work the vol. to see which pickup is reacting to the tuner the best. You'll know by watching the needle's initial jump and wavering back and forth. Tones always on 10. ( a treble bleed in the Vol. can be heaven when it comes to using one of these Boss'. Bass tones tend to cause more needle jumping.)

Probably the most important aspect of using one of these is a consistent picking touch. Light enough to register, not so heavy the needle jumps too much. There will be an initial jump, then the needle will settle in a spot. (If you find a sweet spot with the guitar, there won't even be an initial jump except for maybe the Low-E.)

First tune the guitar open as accurate as possible (as if it needs to be said).

Consistently pick the string 4-5-10 times, alternating open and on the 12th, focusing on using the exact same picking touch (and consistent light pressure on the 12th, just enough to register without it being a harmonic), and keep a mental note of where that needle consistently settles. Sometimes it might be only for 1/2 a second on de-tuned low E-strings, but you should notice the same spot every time.

(for those who don't know)
If the needle wants to settle to the right of center (or sharp) on the 12th, that's the direction the saddle needs to move, so you tighten. To the left of center(flat), you loosen. Do the process again.

I swear, that man can hear + / - .001cent with his ears. hahahaha. It was quite a challenge intonating guitars for him. But I welcome those kinds of challenges, and he was very nice and patient throughout the whole process. Most of the guitars had Floyd trems.

Not sure if he's still using a Boss TU-12 these days. He has a lot of credits behind him in recent years. Could be he's using something a bit more extravagant. But I do know that once you get used to using these, the process goes pretty fast, and can work good enough to do a pro recording.

**I know you didn't need a lesson in intonating Nikki, this is just an FYI in general for anyone interested. But in using these, it's all in finding a sweet-spot on the guitar for an optimal output to reduce the spiking, a consistent picking and fretting touch open and on the 12th, and a perceptive eye on where the needle consistently settles. It becomes second nature after a while.

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LOL!! Such a curiosity. I expected I might get some flack for my post but I thought it would be because I said there would always be issues when using string gauges besides 9s or 10s, not for the fact the human ear is not born naturally pitch perfect.

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Just think of how awesome a guitar player you could have been by now if you had only spent the last 10 years practicing instead of obsessing over pickups and roasted maple necks.

That's why they make Baritone guitars.

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http://www.reverbnation.com/haleamano
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BMW now your being factualy incorrect. I did not say that. What I said was that your ear is far better at determining the relation of one pitch to another and communicating that to your mind. Nowhere did I say that your born with perfect pitch.



And later



Please dont try and twist my words to say what you want people to believe I said. Just to prove point. It just doesnt work. Anyone with half the quota of alloted braincells and a bit of concentration can hear differences in pitch. Thats why babies like nursery rhymes and enjoy music in and out of the womb. It has nothing to do with perfect pitch, which is said by those who have it to be the ability to hear intervals. All you have to really learn for intervals is how to count beats between notes. Refrencing harmonic pitch to fretted pitch would invalidate that as the pitch should be the same or so fast a beat as to make the method of no use.



Shredd.

The few guitar builders I've met over the years (yes I still pick their brains incessantly today) all told me to use my ears refrencing the 12th fret harmonic to the 12th fret fretted note. Sure when designing my compensated nut, I used a tuner on the lower frets. Just to get it even. Thats not without its problems, but its doing a little better lately through perseverance. Like you sir I could name names but that would only induce a pissing contest, probably not even between us but others. So lets not eh. And I've always thought name-dropping to belittle or weaken someones point.

After all, my dads probably not bigger than your dad.

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No no and no