I have a USA Standard HSS strung up with Ernie Ball Not-Even-Slinky strings. Sizes 56-44-32-24p-16-12. It sounded "off" so I checked the intonation and the whole guitar was sharp. The fretted notes were higher than the harmonic both at the 12th fret. I adjusted the saddles away from the neck (made the strings longer) until the intonation was right. However, I had to remove the spring and tighten the saddle tight against the bridge on the low E and G strings. The problem is that my G string is still way off intonation and there is no adjustment left.



My strat has the modern 2-point tremelo. Everything looks OK there. The nut and saddles all seems to be fine. I use graphite to lubricate the nut with each string change. The strings don't seem to be binding anywhere. The pickups are not real close to the strings. The neck appears to be straight, not bending towards one side or the other.

What should I try before taking it to a tech? Is it possible that the neck could have shifted towards the bridge? Can humidity changes shorten a neck that much?

Did you adjust the the screws behind the back-plate by the springs? Truss rod? For a jump from .09s to .12s, I would take it to tec and dish out the $30 for a pro set up. I doubt its anything your certified Fender service center cant handle.

The guitar was setup by a pro went I initially went to .12s. I assume he set the intonation (at least I like to think I would have noticed poor intonation in the couple of years since I went to 12s). I added springs to the tremolo (total of 5) and adjusted the screws to keep the bridge tight against the body, not floating.

We have similar set ups. I have the five spring hard tail set up with .11s on a 2008 MIA Standard. The addition of springs to the bridge block is going to screw up your intonation and your action. If its been a few years since its been in for a set up, than I would just take it in. If you have not done any adjusting of the screws behind the back plate, I would guess that that is the culprit. Take it to your tec. He/she will have it playing like new in 10 min.

Try a lighter G, maybe a .020. Other than that grind down the back of your G saddle if your determined to play that gauge. If your noticing it alot down on the low frets it may be worth getting nut slot height addressed. That wont affect much past the 5th/6th fret though.

If its purely 12th fret intonation thats troubling you then use your ear to check it. Electronic tuners are a complete waste of time in this circumstance unless your using a peterson product or similar.


The saddle grinding isnt for the faint of heart. It may be worth buying a few of them string saver saddles just to do this. Their softer material and easier to cut down. They look and sound horrible though.

Last note change your tech. He should have addressed this.

_________________
No no and no

Hi mechtonia: bigger strings have a longer "speaking length". If that is where the saddles have to be set to intonate correctly then so be it.

Still, I'm surprised. Your 12s are not a monstrously huge gauge - some people use bigger ones. In your pic there is a startling difference between the placing of the G string saddle and top e one. That in itself would make me want to check and recheck the 12th fret intonation to make sure it really is right.

But if that truly is where the saddles end up you can't do anything about it.

I haven't discovered whether there is a variation in length between different manufacturers' block saddles. You could have a look around and see if someone makes shorter ones. Other than that, Niki's suggestion of grinding the back of the saddles down is the only way you are going to get a spring in there if you feel you have to.

- Do you find it essential to have that spring in position?

I seldom recommend people to contact Customer Services but in this case I'd be curious to hear their comment. Why not send them your photo or a link to this thread and see if they have anything useful to offer?

consumerrelations@fender.com

Please let us know if anything useful comes of that.

Good luck - C

I'm not sure, but I think you might need the neck adjusted (truss rod) or micro tilt.The saddles seem to far back. You should have more play than that, to adjust your saddles. The floating bridge can be tricky, I usually wedge the block to cut down time on retuning and keep it close to the factory set-up. It might be worth payin' 20-30 dollars to have a tech set up your guitar.Its easier for them 'cause they usually do it everyday and less stress for yourself.

_________________
2012 American Vintage Telecaster 1958
09 Fender american deluxe strat.
97 Gibson les paul special P90's double-cut
65 Princeton reverb re-issue
2010 Guild Gad-F40e

[Later]Hi again mechtonia: another thing I'm wondering about. Could it be that the whole bridge is just a little too near to the neck? It seems unlikely that Fender have installed the trem posts too far forward - but who knows?

If you want, why not take a very accurate measurement from the fingerboard edge of the nut to the front edge of the trem plate, right in the middle between the two trem posts?

I believe I have in essence an identical guitar to yours (mine is a 2005 Am Series HSS with the S1 switch - later renamed Am Std). That measurement is 637mm / 25.0787" on mine. For what it's worth, here is a photo of my bridge. It is strung with 10s. I'm guessing I'd get 12s on there: I may have to shorten the springs to do it but I don't think I'd need to remove them altogether:



If it turned out that your bridge is wrongly positioned you'd have a cast iron case for replacement of the guitar under warranty.

Ultimately, there are also other bridges that could be swapped in with the two-post system where the saddles can travel further back without hinderance. The Wilkinson VS100 for example, or top of the range VS401.

Seems extreme to have to buy a new bridge to make your guitar function properly though. I'd want to look at other options first.

Good luck (again) - C

Bridge movement over time has long been my main theory concerning this problem. You never see it on vintage style trems do you? Wouldnt only having 2 pivot points instead of 6 mean that those 2 pivot points have to cope with more pressure?

_________________
No no and no

Maybe. Well worth checking wear on the pivot posts. A quarter turn either way will solve that - for a time anyhow.

BTW: compare the wood grain on mechtonia's guitar to mine. Wow - for a minute there I was wondering if he'd sneaked into my house and photographed my guitar!

I've spent a minute comparing grain patterns like barcodes - and these are in fact two different guitars. But it's amazingly close, isn't it?

(Also, my bridge is slightly crooked to the pickguard. Never occured to me to worry about that - till this very moment... )

Cheers - C

EDIT: dysloxic spoolling mistocks...

On your guitar it looks like the treble side is back, rather than the bass side being forwards. Mechtonia's guitar appears to have the bridge parallel to the scratchplate across the front of the trem.

This problem needs addressing properly. Time to get onto the bigboys methinks.

_________________
No no and no

Yeah - rats! I just can't remember if it was always like that or if my posts or knife edges are wearing. Off for a bit of inspection work...

Hmmf: not where I thought this thread was going...

Cheers - C

I'll measure mine later. Thats pretty bang on for intonation adjustment and has great saddle travel capabilities.

Remember that EJ with the bad neck pocket, where the owner discounted everything everone said. We surmised that some wood shavings must have got trapped under one side of the body to angle the pocket so. Perhaps this is nothing more than a similar scenario. That something has caused the guitar to not lie flat and thrown the centerline out a little.

_________________
No no and no

Thanks, this is a very helpful post. I'll check that dimension. Also, your photo is very similar to how mine was setup by the tech. The pic that I posted was after I had corrected the intonation as much as possible. You can see where the saddle height adjustment screws were set on the tremolo plate in my pic. BTW I am using the tuner on my CyberTwin SE and checking it again with a portable tuner.

Dont use a tuner for intonation. Your far better off to check intonation solely against the string. Unless your going to spend £170+ on a tuner the readout just is not as accurate as your ears. Harmonics and sympathetic resonances with other strings interfere far too much unless you pay for a tuner that will filter them out. Thats why you get needle flicker on all tuners.

_________________
No no and no