Is there any advantages to the 2 point trem? I see few people using it, and read a post about it knocking strings out of tune when doing bends.

I see they are fitted on the am std strats, so what's the deal?

Love mine. Zero tuning issues...... Mike

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You see few people using it???? Amer. Standards, American Deluxe all have them plus many more. Odd you don't see more of them around. They have less issues then the others which I think is why fender uses them on the Amer. guitar that are not vintage. Have you ever heard of anyone with a six point loosening a knock on the center screws and have only the outside tighten on six points.

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Never had a problem with my two-point system. You just have to make sure you adjust the posts correctly. But adjusting correctly is true for any bridge.

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Never had a problem either!

The main purpose for the 2 point trem is to maintain tuning.

If only a few people were using a two point tremolo system, Floyd Rose wouldn't be a multimillionaire now, would he?

Depending on how one uses their tremolo system and the appropriateness of the system itself is directly proportionate to what kind of troubles they may or may not experience.

For those occasional users who exert minimal pressure up or down as a slight effect, a properly set, decently made 6 screw system will works just fine. It is the more aggressive user who benefits from the less focal and mating points of a decent, properly set two point system.

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I'm just going to toss my $.02 worth in here. I don't mean this to be contrary to what anyone else has said, this is just my own experience.

I know one of the biggest arguments for or against the 2 point trems is supposedly sustain. A lot of folks think that the 6 point trem provides better sustain because you have more points of contact between the bridge and the body. As with so many technical little details involving guitars, I'm sure this is probably true on some level but I'm also sure the difference is rather subjective and likely quite small.

Of the 4 Strats I'm using at the moment (not including any past or future projects), 3 of them are the traditional 6 point trems and 1 is a Squier Standard "Special" with a 2 point. I can't really comment on the sustain issue at this point because my Squier with the 2 point trem also has the dinky little half-sized trem block and I -know- that thing is robbing me of sustain. All three of the Strats with the 6 point trems all have full size blocks (1 steel, 2 zinc) so based on my experience with my '96 MIM (having come stock with the same sized block as the Squier Standard), I -KNOW- the block makes a huge difference in that regard. However, I do have to honestly say that the 2 point trem on my '08 Squier Standard does feel -A LOT- smoother than any of my other Strats. To me at least, it has a similar feel as a well setup Floyd Rose...without some of the hassles of a Floyd Rose.

Now as far as tuning stability goes, surprisingly the Strat that is the most stable -for me- is actually the parts caster I built earlier this year. To break this down, I have a '96 MIM Standard, an '85 E Series Squier, the afore mentioned '08 Squier Standard and the Partscaster. The Partscaster is a project I did earlier this year. I was trying to build a vintage looking instrument without putting a lot of money in to it (I was mainly trying to teach myself how to do a 50's-like 2 tone sunburst). The body is alder but otherwise of unknown make and origin (I got it for $25 off Craigslist...probably mid-80's import) and I refinished it in acrylic lacquer. The neck and tuners are from an '04 Indonesian Squier Standard and the bridge is an MIM vintage style (6 point, big zinc block). To be honest, I'm not sure if it's something that I did while building her...the setup maybe since this was a project from parts...or if it's just perhaps something with the combination of the parts themselves, but this sucker is one of the most stable Strat I've ever really played.....I can work the crap out of the trem bar and she really does "stay put".

Now between the other 3 Strats and between the 2 point and the 6 point issue, there I haven't really noticed that much of a difference. They're Strats...if you start doing dive bombs, they do have a tendency to go out of tune! LOL!!! The '96 MIM may have a bit of an edge over the MIJ or the '08 Squier but it's not really significant at all. With that, I should also add that none of them (including the Partscaster) are nearly as stable as my old Kramer with it's locking Kahler...once the strings "stretch in", that sucker just does not go out of tune, LOL!

So to summarize all of that, of the 4 Strats I mentioned here, the Squier Standard with the 2 point feels smoother and the Partscaster with a 6 point is the most stable tuning-wise of the 4. That said, the two I play the most are the '96 MIM and the '85 MIJ. Why? Because they both sound better than the other two. Again the '08 Squier Standard, while she has a set of Fender VN pups in her, is waiting for a decent trem block so there is a noticeable sustain issue there and the Partscaster...I still haven't found the "right" pickups for her yet. My '96 MIM however with it's big steel block and it's Duncan Hot Rails is just a screamin' demon and my '85 MIJ...she's just mellow and pure, LOL!!! I would also mention that I've only had the '85 MIJ for a little over a month now so there's probably still a bit of the "new toy" factor to contend with there I'm sure. Regardless, I guess this shows a little of where my own priorities are .

Lastly, for a point of reference I do have to say that as far as bridge issues go, while my Partscaster is more stable and the '08 Squier Standard is smoother, we're not talking about a "huge difference" by any means. For example, it's not like I sit down and play the '96 MIM (or the MIJ) and waaaaaanggie, she goes out of tune or anything and it's not like I won't play them just because the Standard feels a little bit nicer. Typically I'll just play which ever guitar I'm in the mood to play or that I feel is most appropriate for a given tune. I guess the best way I can explain this is that during an average practice, I will usually check my tuning every few songs or so (unless I hear something specifically out of course) and I will "tweak" the tuning on any of my guitars periodically. In the case of the Partscaster, it's usually "dead nuts"...right on the money, where as with my MIM or my MIJ, I may have to tweak a string or two just a little bit every now and then...usually depending on how hard I'm playing. It's not a huge factor by any means though...I've been playing for a rather long time now and to me, tuning is just part of playing .

Anyways, if you get nothing else out of this, hopefully the one thing you will walk away with is that like so many other guitar related issues, it's all a bit subjective and -really- just depends on what the individual prefers...2 point...6 point...Fender....Wilkinson...Floyd Rose...Kahler....Bigsby...hard tail...whatever. Go to your local music store and try a few in each category and then let your own hands, ears and heart tell you which is right for you.

Peace,
Jim

(I hope that some of that made sense somewhere...)

Great essay lomitus. Some good points.

I have both types of trem and are in the floating setup. Technical book says that because 2 point trm is trully floating makes it better to return to pitch but on the other hand it has less mass/contact points = less sustain. The opposite is the story for 6 point trem i guess.

From my personal experience both systems work good with no tunning issues other when caused by crappy string or similar (i don't use trmolo arm, just sometimes whack the trem plate with the palm to get my weird tremolo effect) . Guitar with 6 point MIM has more sustain that 2 point MIA but not too much and it has thick block.

Over the years (40 or more) I've always no matter what was in style or what I thought was best at the time, I've always depended on a Strat for live gigs except for a couple of times in my career I for a short time played a Gibson LP or once in my teens I got a Gibby 330-late 50s model my Pops bought me! (guitar played itself I just stood there and held it almost) But as I said I have always gone back to the Strat with heavy gauge strings with the pups set low so they wouldn't pull it out of tune! But this isn't the subject, I played a 2 point strat plus for a short time and couldn't wait to get rid of it. Nice tone but with heavy gauge strings that barely fit through the Wilkerson nut, I was plaqued with tuning problems. Now I've learned some tricks some widely known and some not so widely known. I have a '79 model "The Strat" now that refuses to go out of tune. Even with a song like SRV's "Lenny" that uses the "wiggle bar" all through the song, its the same at the beginning as it is at the end of the song! On this Strat as the last Strat Fan said the block is huge and I use all 5 springs to pull the bridge flush with the body, the downfall is there is no way to pull up or to raise the pitch, but I find this a small price to pay for staying in tune and not falling victim to a locking nut! I also feel that for better tone and as the guitar settles in that one should use the biggest gauge string size you can manage. Get used to it it will improve you tone and accurateness. Your guitar will stay in tune and your strings will keep their tone longer. But some secrets- if you dive bomb and slip out of tune pull up on the bar(while deadening the strings) and the guitar should ,if you practice this technique, go back to pitch if not try it again pull the bar up sharply, you'll be surprised-this is for the 2 point bridges. Also invest in Graphite nut, saddles and bridge pieces-save the old parts but these are slippery & save you from not only going out of tune but also from breaking strings. And a trick I once learned from an article from SRV's guitar tech. He would slide the string thru electrical wire insulation a small maybe 1/2 inch so the wound end of the string doesn't get hung up on the block or on the string hole in the bridge. Make it is just long enough to fall short of touching the bridge point so not to kill the sustain, this one works great! But my best advise I believe is still to use the largest strings your hand can manage. When Leo invented the Strat there was no such animal as Ernie Ball Slinkys-we used Gibson or Black Diamond or Fender. Probally all made in the same shop. But they were telephone wires huge strings-made beginners fingers bleed! But the guitars stayed in tune! PhilVis

Despite my rather long post earlier, philvis' post got me thinking a bit (thank you philvis!) and there's a couple of small things I would like to add to what I wrote earlier for the benefit of the OP or anyone reading this really...


On the issue of tuning and Strats in general, I think that most of the "old timers" here like myself would agree that the single best thing you can do in regards to have a Strat stay in tune is have it set up correctly. Very simply, a poorly setup Strat...regardless of the 2 pt vs 5 pt trem debate...will NOT play well but it mostly likely WILL have tuning issues. I think this is something that a lot of folks really don't take in to account as much as they should...particularly in regards to newer or younger players. A lot of folks like "low action" but they really don't understand all the dynamics of how to actually setup the guitar...they'll usually just lower the bridge or the saddles or something. A "proper" setup however has to take the whole instrument in to consideration...the size of the strings (which is the part of philvis' comment that got me thinking), the neck relief, the break angle of the strings, the tension of the springs on the bridge, etc..

Incidentally...for the record all for of my Strats mentioned above are set to "float". I don't have any of them pulled all the way flat against the body.

Also, there are other things in regards to Strats and tuning stability as well...how one wraps their strings around the tuning post for example. I can't speak for others but I know I've certainly seen a few guitars where the person changing the strings had NO IDEA what they were doing! LOL!!! The problem with a situation like this is that you'll get some yo-yo who will screw it up then run around saying "Yea...Strats suck because they never stay in tune"...you get the idea. Has nothing at all to do with the guitar, just the yutz who worked on it and didn't know what he was doing.

So with that, I would stand by my original comments in that either way...2 point vs 6 point, it's not really that big of a deal. Play whatever feels and sounds best to you. Like I said, just a couple extra thoughts .

Peace,
Jim

I have a MIM Std w/ vintage-type trem with amazing sustain. But I freely admit the Am Std has the better trem. The Am Std 2-point has the better materials and design IMO.

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They all go out of tune - Unless you work to make them stay in tune.

2 point or 6 point sound and sustain the same - If you work to make it so.

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How does the Fender 2 point compare to a Floyd Rose? I'm getting severe GAS and have it narrowed down to 3 choices, 2 of them have the vintage trem, while one is the American standard. I could never get used to a Floyd, I know they're great at staying in tune, but I could just never get used to it even after putting 4 or 5 springs on it like my strat. I don't use the trem hard and the vintage style on the strat workd just fine for me.
thanks for any info
filerj