Strap Button Screw Keeps Loosening

cvilleira · **Posted:** Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:14 pm

I would have thought the industry standard in wood working would call for the use of Bondo? When working on antiques to keep from removing anymore wood or cracking,chipping of a hard finish by drilling thru to the wood for a small hole you would use Minwax bondo or Timbermate or making your own wood fill with Titebond and wood dust. What ever works !

billco · **Joined:** Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:07 pm **Posts:** 98

Kong · **Posted:** Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:29 pm

billco wrote:

cvilleira wrote:

I would have thought the industry standard in wood working would call for the use of Bondo? When working on antiques to keep from removing anymore wood or cracking,chipping of a hard finish by drilling thru to the wood for a small hole you would use Minwax bondo or Timbermate or making your own wood fill with Titebond and wood dust. What ever works !

In the refinishing world you are exactly correct. People think of Bondo as a plastic filler for auto body work, but it is routinely used in woodworking, especially good for rotted wood around windows and such as well. But it doesn’t have the same bonding or threading characteristics of hide glue and wood. Once hide glue sets as I described earlier, the joint will not fail for the life of the wood. In other words, the wood can be split next to the joint, but the joint will not give way. Ever! The joint becomes stronger than the wood next to it.

With Bondo or any other epoxy, when the new screw hole is drilled, there is not much new material left against the sides of the drilled hole. Bondo would most likely break loose in that particular instance if put under stress. However, because a glued in dowel becomes part of the surrounding wood, it will not crumble when the screw is inserted. Clear as mud?

I probably should have attacked this in a different manner, so let’s take a look at this from a different angle. If you took a three bodies, one that was repaired with the toothpick method, another that was drilled and doweled with hide glue as described, and a third that had the hole filled with epoxy and then drilled, then took all three to a lab and had a stress test done on them to the point of failing, the glued dowel will come out as the winner by a wide margin. The toothpick method would fail much earlier due to the very reasons I outlined in my previous post. Again, there is not a credible engineer anywhere that would dispute this. Why there are so many here ignoring this fact is beyond belief.

Many seem to want to believe that the dowel is overkill. I say hogwash for this reason. If the original wood in the body stripped out and failed, why would anyone want to trust their guitar to a repair of a lesser fashion than was original? It defies logic. Think about it.

Thanks for the input!

I'm going to weigh in.

I agree that the method you describe is the strongest. I went with Elmers wood glue and some slivers of toothpick which I jammed into the hole with the glue and then threaded the screw in while the glue was still wet. It is holding up and feels "strong enough" for the job. Also, this was not a repair due to any failure, it was necessary because strap locks that I installed had narrower screws and the stock screws would not fit the buttons.

I don't have a drill press and I feel I am at more risk of damaging the guitar with your far superior, stronger method, and my woodworking skills and available tools. This might be a dumb question, but does the drill press in your example work horizontally, or is there some sort of rig you attach the guitar to?

I am going out on a limb here and saying I don't think my fix will fail. If we go to a lab it will fail your test sooner than your method, but it might just be overkill for this job. The stress on the strap button is not pulling straight out. You're method is the strongest, hands down, but not necessarily always the best option. A ton of guys have gone the toothpick route with no issues.

I agree to disagree that a dowel is the only acceptable fix, but I will grant if done as you describe it is the strongest.

By the way, I like Smithwick's.

billco · **Joined:** Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:07 pm **Posts:** 98

billco · **Joined:** Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:07 pm **Posts:** 98

cvilleira · **Posted:** Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:34 pm

When I have fixed them for customers in the past it has been wood dust and tite bond mixed hole filled and leveled. Then attach from there. There is always as chance of finish damage. If you do drill the spot out its best to use bit's like the ones used on Plexi and lucite that are non chipping.

nikininja · **Posted:** Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:06 pm

I cant believe theres a discussion arguing the toss of one repair method over another.

Cmon guys, whatever works eh?

allanf64 · **Posted:** Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:15 pm

Can two or three hundred of you guys help me design the perfect paper-weight? ...wow!!!

BMW-KTM · **Posted:** Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:21 pm

bbrodie wrote:

I think 30 years is a pretty good run. LOL I still have the guitar and still play it almost daily. So yeah I will defend the toothpicks and sliver of wood. :roll:

What cracks me up is that you really think yours is THE only acceptable method.

Even though we already know what works through the irrefutable empirical data of past and present successful repairs our (or at least "my" anyway) defeat has nevertheless been duly noted. You share a part in my shame since you are still unconvinced. We therefore must remind ourselves continually and diligently that our guitars have never actually been repaired. It's all been just in our minds all these years. Let's stop deluding ourselves, shall we? Chant with me, now. Let's hold hands ....

It's not repaired. It's not repaired. It's not repaired...

budglo · **Joined:** Fri Jan 02, 2009 3:17 pm **Posts:** 1986

Interesting ,4 pages on a stripped screw!I worked in a furniture factory when i was 18 for a period of time and occasionally we had screws strip out when screwing a dresser or table together .To repair it we would stick some wood glue in the hole and fill it with toothpicks ,cut them off and put the screw in and it would work like a charm.Its a proceedure they have been doing for years.Did the repair hold?I would imagine since most of that furniture has been probably been around pretty long by now.Or maybe it was never really repaired to begin with.

63supro · **Joined:** Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:19 pm **Posts:** 8827

But that's not wood working 101!!! LOL

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