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Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:32 am
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63supro wrote:
With all due respect, unless you were around playing guitar in the 70's, you don't know what the 70's guitars were like. When CBS took over, some musicians took offense to a big corporation making Fender guitars and that's when all the vintage stuff started. They didn't like the big headstock etc. There were a lot of good Fender guitars then. They weren't as rare as people say they were. Hendrix apparently had no problem with them. You just needed to know what to look for. There were good and bad and still are. The Strats from the 50's and 60's were pretty inconsistent. I know, I played some. Some were pure magic, some couldn't stay in tune or just sounded lifeless. Just like today. My 72 is magic. Everyone who's ever played it wanted it. It's a weird thing.

Remember, a lot of folks who say all 70's Fender guitars are garbage, never even played one.


Way to go Supro that's what I was saying earlier.

Lots of the "youngsters" just parrot what they hear other players saying because it's "guitar talk" and sounds good. If you repeat something often enough it becomes accepted as absolute truth.

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Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:59 am
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I'd put my 72 up against any current production Strat any day. Maybe my neck is good because it's a maple neck. Somebody even mentioned fragile headstocks LOL. Everything on my Strat is solid as a rock and at that time ALL Strats were made here in the US and they didn't need 200 variations of the same guitar.


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Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 9:01 am
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63supro wrote:
I'd put my 72 up against any current production Strat any day. Maybe my neck is good because it's a maple neck. Somebody even mentioned fragile headstocks LOL. Everything on my Strat is solid as a rock and at that time ALL Strats were made here in the US and they didn't need 200 variations of the same guitar.


I agree, my '73 Strat took a lot of lickin' and kept on tickin' for a lot of years!!!

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Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 9:28 am
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Miami Mike wrote:
63supro wrote:
ALL Strats were made here in the US and they didn't need 200 variations of the same guitar.


Well....apparently....in their infinite 'wisdom'.....on rising like the Phoenix from the ashes.....the boys in the band on the West Coast came to the conclusion that, in order to compete in a global market, and across the price points, they had to please not only some of the people some of the time, but some of the people all of the time, and all of the people all of the time.

PRS, however, has preserved the investment quality of its high end MIA line by producing an entirely different guitar line in Korea, of high quality, and lower price point. Now I agree that, from a distance, it might not be possible to easily distinguih between an SE from a 'single cut', but as far as the others are concerned, not so.

On the other hand, a black strat with a white pickguard and a maple neck could either be an Affinity, and MIM Standard, or a Masterbuilt Clapton. :?

It is what it is, mates. :wink:

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Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 9:42 am
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Blertles wrote:
So we all know about the 70's- as above what were the gripes about the early 90's? I beg to differ on that one


Well didn't the 90s introduce Poplar bodied American Standards and Swimming pool route?


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Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:24 am
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Tube Screamer wrote:
YZFJOE wrote:
In early 1965, Leo Fender sold his companies to the Columbia Broadcasting System, or CBS for $13 million.[2] This was almost two million more than they paid for The New York Yankees a year before. [3]CBS entered the musical instruments field by acquiring the Fender companies (Fender Sales, Inc., Fender Electric Instrument Company, Inc., Fender Acoustic Instrument Company, Inc., Fender-Rhodes, Inc., Terrafen, Inc., Clef-Tronix, Inc., Randall Publishing Co., Inc., and V.C. Squier Company), as well as Electro-Music Inc. (Leslie speakers), Rogers drums, Steinway pianos, Gemeinhardt flutes, Lyon & Healy harps, Rodgers (institutional) organs, and Gulbransen home organs.

This had far-reaching implications. The sale was taken as a positive development, considering CBS's ability to bring in money and personnel who acquired a large inventory of Fender parts and unassembled guitars that were assembled and put to market. However, the sale also led to a reduction of the quality of Fender's guitars while under the management of "cost-cutting" CBS. Several cosmetic changes occurred after 1965/1966, such as a larger headstock shape on certain guitars. Bound necks with block shaped position markers were introduced in 1966. A bolder black headstock logo, as well as a brushed aluminum face plate with blue or red labels (depending the model) for the guitar and bass amplifiers became standard features, starting in 1968. These cosmetic changes were followed by a new "tailless" Fender amp decal and a sparkling orange grillcloth on certain amplifiers in the mid-1970s. Regarding guitars, in the early 1970s the usual four-bolt neck joint was changed to one using only three bolts, and a second string tree for the two middle (G and D) strings was added in late 1971. These changes were said to have been made to save money: While it suited the new 'improved' micro-tilt adjustment of the neck (previously requiring neck removal and shimming), the "Bullet" truss-rod system, and a 5-way pickup selector on most models, it also resulted in a greater propensity toward mechanical failure of the guitars.

During the CBS era, the company did introduce some new instrument and amplifier designs. The Fender Starcaster was particularly unusual because of its semi-hollow body design, still retaining the Fender bolt-on neck, and a completely different headstock. The Starcaster also incorporated a new Humbucking pickup designed by Seth Lover. This pickup also gave rise to 3 new incarnations of the classic Telecaster. Though more recent use by Jonny Greenwood of Radiohead has raised the Starcaster's profile, CBS-era instruments are generally much less coveted or collectable than the "pre-CBS" models created by Leo Fender prior to selling the Fender companies to CBS in 1965.

The culmination of the CBS "cost-cutting" may have occurred in 1983, when the Fender Stratocaster received a short-lived redesign lacking a second tone control and a bare-bones output jack, as well as redesigned single-coil pickups, active electronics, and three push-push buttons for pickup selection (Elite Series). Additionally, previous models such as the Swinger (also known as Musiclander) and Custom (also known as Maverick) were perceived by some musicians as little more than attempts to squeeze profits out of factory stock. The so-called "pre-CBS cult" refers to the popularity of Fenders made before the sale.

After selling the Fender company, Leo Fender founded Music Man in 1975, and later founded the G&L Musical Instruments company, which manufactures electric guitars and basses based on his later designs.

quoted form Wikipedia


Man YZF JOE, you are one fast typist, that post was only two mins after your previous post! :o

Copy and Past :?: :!: :?: :!:


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Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:22 pm
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[quote="JimiVanPage"][quote="Tube Screamer"][quote="YZFJOE"]..........

I maintain that The Stratocaster Chronicles is the best reference.

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Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:45 pm
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Yogi wrote:
Blertles wrote:
So we all know about the 70's- as above what were the gripes about the early 90's? I beg to differ on that one


Well didn't the 90s introduce Poplar bodied American Standards and Swimming pool route?


Some were poplar- not all of them. As for the swimming pool routing, it just made sense to give players the option to install humbuckers without the need to re-rout your guitar. These two things hardly would make them low quality or cast fender back to the dark ages. They just found it difficult trying to source alder at the time.

Truth be told, given the advancements in American standard in 1987- Id say these strats were the ones that saved the company and put it were it is today. They are fast becoming sought after today. American Standard, Am standard Floyd Rose, Plus, Plus Deluxe, Ultra, signatures and custom shop came out of late eighties and early nineties. Without its popularity- we would be playing Japanese fenders down at the shop :) personally, I love playing early strats, and in my opinion, dare I say- the feel of the necks, the huge colour range and the fact that they made a floyd version in vintage white, the plus deluxe with the retro-fit locking bridge for strats- I like them better than todays models- hands down. Compare the line-up today to the early nineties, I liked the old models better

Most wouldnt be able to tell the difference between an alder and a poplar if you put two next to eachother both finished in black and told everyone they were both Basswood. I know I wouldnt, and I reckon everyone might agree to the basswood

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Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 2:32 pm
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Yogi wrote:
Blertles wrote:
So we all know about the 70's- as above what were the gripes about the early 90's? I beg to differ on that one


Well didn't the 90s introduce Poplar bodied American Standards and Swimming pool route?


OH NO!
Poplar wood and a swimming pool rout
MORE EVIL CHANGE
:D

Tone wood, schmone wood it's all a marketing gimmick (Coke or Pepsi).
While there may in fact be a few fifted "Jedi Guitarists" out there that can tell the tonal difference for real, most average schmoes AGAIN are just parrotting what they have read or heard others say.

I actually read someone on these forums claiming that removing the trem spring cover improved tone.

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Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:06 pm
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mthorn00 wrote:
MORE EVIL CHANGE


It doesn't matter if the "change" made any sense or actually improved things, most of us stuck-in-the-mud guitarists think that any change is bad!

Seriously now, I, for one, wonder about the Freeflyte tremolo, one of the last gasp advancements of the CBS controlled management. Was it any good?

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Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:14 pm
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Dunno, anyone have experience with the freeflytes?

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Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 3:47 am
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Supro...a big thank you for historical perspective vs. hysterical.

What also gets left out of this discussion...the other Fender guitars which competed with the Strat during the 60's...(the notion that the Strat was ALWAYS THE Fender guitar thoughout the 60's)...as well as the comp of the Les Paul...

the notion of 70's guitars being disappointing is promoted I believe in part by younger players encountering less than accurate reissues...

related to this topic...the Dark Ages of Guitar playing...


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Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:29 am
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[quote="njupasaka123"] What also gets left out of this discussion...the other Fender guitars which competed with the Strat during the 60's...(the notion that the Strat was ALWAYS THE Fender guitar thoughout the 60's)...as well as the comp of the Les Paul...

That's a good observation. However, this being the Strat Forum, there's an inherent bias at work. :wink:

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Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:50 am
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zzdoc wrote:
njupasaka123 wrote:
What also gets left out of this discussion...the other Fender guitars which competed with the Strat during the 60's...(the notion that the Strat was ALWAYS THE Fender guitar thoughout the 60's)...as well as the comp of the Les Paul...

That's a good observation. However, this being the Strat Forum, there's an inherent bias at work. :wink:


Bias!? naaaaw.
Walk up to anyone on the street and ask them to draw an electric guitar. The majority will draw a Strat, it's THE electric guitar. Everything that came after the Strat is just marketing to try and up sales by creating more products. Not a better product, just different product.

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Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 2:10 pm
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Bias!? naaaaw.
Walk up to anyone on the street and ask them to draw an electric guitar. The majority will draw a Strat, it's THE electric guitar. Everything that came after the Strat is just marketing to try and up sales by creating more products. Not a better product, just different product.[/quote]


You're correct in the sense that the Stratocaster shape has become the "Band-Aid" or the "Kleenex" of the electric guitar. This was supported recently by the court decision against Fender's attempt to copyright the shape, recognizing that the shape had all but become generic.

The Tele preceded it, still has a strong niche following, and I'm beginning to see more of them in contemporary bands along with LP's, than I'm seeing Strats. I used the word bias in recognition of the Forum in which the discussion is being carried.

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