Was wondering if any of you have had a tremsetter installed on your guitars that have a two-point bridge. The demo I watched on YouTube showed the disadvantages of a two-point bridge but how a tremsetter can solve them.

Which brings me to this question. Why did Fender or whoever it was even invent the two-point bridge if it's got these disadvantages in the first place? Wow and flutter? Bridge sag? WTF?

I had a few of American Standard Plus Strats which had the Tremsetter OEM in them. I couldn't remove these devices and install the traditional claw and a regular spring fast enough. Personally, I think they are utterly useless and, "upset the whole apple cart" in terms of the way these or any other Strats I've played with them in performed.

As to why Fender installed them, it probably looked good 'on paper' to someone and from a selling point, was marketed as an essential device (read, "gimmick") the consumer will surely feel he or she 'must' have. Besides, with it installed OEM in their guitars, the base price of the guitar can be increased where a profit will be turned on this worthless unit alone. Frankly, if it was truly as good as claimed, I don't think it would have been installed OEM in any guitar and would only be sold separately at an even heftier profit margin.

As always, the above is merely IMO, YMMV.

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Hi 357mag: I must admit I'd never actually handled a guitar with a Tremsetter till I got together with Forum user Tremolo Arm recently and had a little go of one of his Strats that has one fitted.

I certainly see why many people don't like them. You can feel a sort of bump as the trem returns to its "zero" position, a little like a center notched control knob. Potentially quite uncomfortable if you use your trem for a bit of shimmer both sides of the note.

On the other hand, Mr Tremolo Arm fitted it because he is so frustrated with the unbent note detuning when he does unison bends - presumably the disadvantages of a normal two- or six-point trem of which you spoke. Mr TA feels the Tremsetter is the lesser of two evils in that situation. He also feels it aids return to pitch after wammy use, which is an issue he is having problems with.

So, horses for courses...

Cheers - C

(PS: I'm only reporting this because I haven't seen Tremolo Arm around the Forum recently. If you're reading this, TA, apologies for speaking in your place. And BTW, that nut is not forgotten...)

I wasn't asking why some guitars came with a tremsetter. What I meant was why there is such a thing as a two-point bridge if the bridge sucks in the first place. Yeah the bridge may not bind like a six point might and may be better for someone who likes to use the whammy a lot but all these other drawbacks are bad I think.

Not to mention it doesn't look like a classic Fender bridge.

What if a guy did not install a tremsetter and installed a fourth spring instead? Would that help eliminate warble and flutter and help with the other issues of returning to pitch?

Hi again 357mag: tell you what, since most of us probably haven't seen the YouTube vid that promted your thread why not post a link to it so's we can be sure exactly what's on your mind?

Till then, I presume the "disadvantages" of syncronised trems you are thinking of are return to pitch after wammy use and the bending of one string causing the others to go flat.

The latter is a fundamental consequence of the laws of physics. Can't be avoided, though there are things that can mitigate it - stuff to do with your fingers whilst string bending, for instance.

Return to pitch is a ticklish issue. Mr Tremolo Arm (above) really does have an annoying problem with this, which we partly believed we'd tracked down to nut issues. Friction anywhere in the system is the cause of return to pitch problems, and places this can occur are the tuner posts, string tree(s), the nut, pivot points on the bridge and even within the trem springs themselves.

All of this can be addressed and reduced, but not done away with entirely - again, the physics of friction and energy conversion.

Adding springs will somewhat reduce these difficulties by stiffening up the whole system, and a Tremsetter is another option because it introduces a sort of center notch into the action of the vibrato that helps it to stay in the "zero" position till you deliberately move it up or down. But none of this solves the problem completely, and also introduces other "feel" issues that many consider not worth the candle.

Ultimately, this is why Mr Floyd Rose invented his bridge - which has its own set of factors which some can live with and some can't.

Personally, in my own case the combination of my set up and my playing style means I don't suffer these problems enough to bother me, so I don't worry about any of the mechanical solutions. Lucky me.

Long post: does that get you any further?

Cheers - C

Hey all,
I fixed this problem in my strat by pulling the bridge back flush with the body. I did that by tightening the trem claw enough to hold the bridge down while bending. The drawback to this setup is my tremolo is only functional if I want to drop the notes now. I never even use the trem any way, so in my case, this was a perfect fix.
J

The disadvantages I was referring to were flutter and warble and perhaps returning to pitch correctly. I thought the two-point bridge was invented to solve these problems in the first place. I guess not:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jvl0fLOzwi8

I'm not gonna pickup that Classic Player's 50's Strat soley because I don't like the two-point bridge. For me the vintage six-point works just fine and doesn't look strange.

I'm not sure why he says that those problems are ONLY found on the Fender 2-point bridge. Any floating Tremolo will have those issues to some degree. I'm sure it's likely more of an issue with the 2-point trem simply because it's so much smoother to operate. Many do find the 2-point to be the superior design because of how smoothly it operates (Jeff Beck comes to mind.)

For me, Tremolo Sag is really the only major issue. Many players don't care because they're style doesn't exploit it. To others, it's all the reason they need to use a fixed bridge in the first place.

"Flutter" isn't something many players even care about. Try to think of a time where flutter becomes a real issue?

As far as returning to pitch, the Tremsetter does make this better, but if you are a heavy trem user, it's still easy to make the guitar go out of tune regardless. The Tremsetter isn't going to let you go nutz with the trem. It's probably more beneficial to just develop playing technique to minimize this problem.

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Life is good when you love your tone.

A profound and true statement.

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Hello!

I have just trawled though the 60 or so threads on tremsetters and I didn't see a great deal of love expressed for this bit of kit. So rather than starting Thread 61 "how crap is your tremsetter" i thought i'd necro / bump this thread for the following perpose.

I am having great difficulty mastering the above elusive technique of unsion bends without incuring hidious detuning of any open strings. I presume the technique to adopt would be to palm the bridge and apply and release the pressure whilist bending which, without the use of the "Force" or any kind of Jedi aid is a real pig to pull off!.

So like Mr Tremolo Arm I am forced to consider installing a tremsetter. I have a hipshot tremsetter ready to go But before I install it, I'd like to hear if anyone could recommend any alternative other than adding springs or the options i've already listed. What would really help is some evidence of positive experiences members have had using their tremsetter (is there one amoungst you who has a fault free tremsetter installed?). I know it sounds a little odd but I'd rather not install the tremsetter if i'd be better off hard-tailing one of my Partscasters and using that for the bends etc.

Basicaly I'd like to know, If possible, can I have my cake and conclusively eat it!

Any help would be much appreciated!

Andy

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Yeah, I've had good success with my Trem-Setters. Installation isn't all that diffifcult and when correctly adjusted and set-up they work as advertised. Here's a series of posts I made in another forum a few years ago that demonstrated how well my Trem-Setter worked for me...

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How much a note goes flat while bending another string depends on a number of things. Often it is no big deal and is barely noticeable, but (for me anyway) there are as many times when it is obvious. It will depend on what strings are involved, what frets are involved, and of course how far you bend the string. I tend to do a lot of this sort of thing when I'm soloing so I have more opportunities to notice a note being played flat as a result of bending another string.

As an example, listen the mp3 that I made below. This clip, made with one of my Strats that does NOT have a TremSetter, is 2 minutes long, and during that 2 minutes I count 9 such times where this occurred. Of the 9, only 5 of them bug me. Of course, on 2 that don't bother me, I also pull off of the bend just before hitting the other string, minimizing the problem. But listen to the bends at 0:57, 1:01, 1:02, 1:31, and 1:45. The note played following the bend is flat enough to really bug me. Particularly, those at 1:02 and 1:31 turn my stomach. And 1:31 would be even worse if I had actually pulled the bend up to pitch in the first place. Maybe some won't hear it as much I do, but it really does bother me.

http://marksmitchell.home.mindspring.com/Custom54.mp3

Now listen to the mp3 that I made below, this time with one of my Strats that does have a TremSetter. Just knowing that I have the TremSetter puts me at ease and you will hear that in this recording because rather than just doing these bends occasionally as I did above, I will often group them together in multiples. I do this 8 times in multiples ranging from 2x all the way to 14x. If I know it's going to be in tune, I don't concern myself with it. In this 5 minute recording, I do this type of bend about 60 times. Listen particularly to the multiples I do at 0:41, 1:22, 2:25, 3:29, 3:48, 3:58, 4:14, and 4:56. They are all in tune because of the TremSetter and that's why I will do them in multiples if I want to.

http://marksmitchell.home.mindspring.com/HGold3S.mp3

A fantastic little gadget the TremSetter is. The only downside to it is that you have to get used to feeling the little notch at the neutral setting when using the tremolo. A small inconvenience considering what you get.

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Life is good when you love your tone.

Just a side note SMark I had to listen to your recordings twice to catch your examples on the time marks. I was too distracted the first time by the chops and tone on your guitars...awesome by the way

Which prompted me to vist your website. Me really likey Scallopcaster #6 but then I'm partial to maple necks. I can certainly see why the tremsetter would be useful to you. If I even look at a scalloped neck it plays out of tune and I don't consider my self heavy handed by any means. I do however like big frets and have contemplated going stainless if I refret. Thanks for the example.

Why Thank You!


Yeah, I'm officially a scalloped neck freak. And since you like maple necks, here's a pic of a Strat I just put together a couple weeks ago...



This is Scallopcaster #8.

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Life is good when you love your tone.

Thats got to be a Warmouth neck the flame is incredible. Swamp Ash body? and the pickguard veneer? blends right in with the flame in the body... What did you load the pickguard up with? My ear tells me from some of those clips that you like your pups overwound and hot.

Nice job...You and Ceri need to hook up. If you haven't been following his latest build thread its under "Touching up Nikininja's Body"
Those Brits have an odd since of humor....