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Post subject: Vintage tuners vs normal tuners...
Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:48 am
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What are the differences between vintage tuners and the normal modern tuners (non locking) that come in american standards and MIM standard strats?
Is one better than the other or it's just a matter of aesthetic preference?


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Post subject: Re: Vintage tuners vs normal tuners...
Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 12:20 pm
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imc_1121 wrote:
What are the differences between vintage tuners and the normal modern tuners (non locking) that come in american standards and MIM standard strats?
Is one better than the other or it's just a matter of aesthetic preference?


Actually, NOT the reissues, but an original set of 'vintage' tuners leave a lot to be desired of themselves and especially when compared to what you call, "the normal modern ones", which are leaps and bounds, better. The reissues of 'vintage tuners' on the other hand, are a thousand times better than their 'original' counterparts but in my experience, still not as good as the aforementioned, "normal modern ones". YMMV.

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Post subject: Re: Vintage tuners vs normal tuners...
Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 2:21 pm
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Martian wrote:
imc_1121 wrote:
What are the differences between vintage tuners and the normal modern tuners (non locking) that come in american standards and MIM standard strats?
Is one better than the other or it's just a matter of aesthetic preference?


Actually, NOT the reissues, but an original set of 'vintage' tuners leave a lot to be desired of themselves and especially when compared to what you call, "the normal modern ones", which are leaps and bounds, better. The reissues of 'vintage tuners' on the other hand, are a thousand times better than their 'original' counterparts but in my experience, still not as good as the aforementioned, "normal modern ones". YMMV.


Pardon my ignorance, but what's the advantage of those 62 or 57 reissue strats over say an american std??
Martian you seem to have a vast knowledge about strats, could you give me your thoughts about the new american standards, as I'm thinking about buying one soon.


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Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 3:50 pm
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There are no advantages really because it all boils down to personal preferences. Do you prefer a vintage radius with vintage frets? Do you prefer vintage hardware? Do you prefer an aged lacquer?

If the answer is yes then buy one of the vintage reissues. Otherwise you would probably be happier with a more modern Strat.

That is the bottom line.


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Post subject: Re: Vintage tuners vs normal tuners...
Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 6:32 pm
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imc_1121 wrote:
Pardon my ignorance, but what's the advantage of those 62 or 57 reissue strats over say an american std??

Martian you seem to have a vast knowledge about strats, could you give me your thoughts about the new american standards, as I'm thinking about buying one soon.


I know I could write a book on this but I'll try to be as brief as possible.

There really is no advantage to the 57 or 62 RIs, per se. Consider 1957 or 1962 technology vs. today's for starters. Back in those day too, the essential designs of the Strat and all its components were created around what Leo Fender and George Fullerton thought would be, "cutting edge". As is common knowledge, there were, "dogs" back then in terms of the individual specimen, there were, "gems" and of course, anything and everything in between. Nowadays, the current Fender dynasty revamped the Strat around what the millions upon millions of players over the decades declared essential for a, "gem" specimen and listened to what players wished for in terms of upgrading certain designs, eliminating certain perceived flaws and of course, this is all accomplished now with state of the art technology. Thus, this, "new" Strat guitar was born with for the most part, utmost uniform consistency. This is easily verifiable as you've read here on this forum time and time again, that "dogs" are now pretty hard to find as most brand spanking new American Standards are in fact, "gems".

At the risk of sounding like a contradiction, in my case, to prefer the old designs over the new American Standards is more a personal thing. I guess you can equate it to for example, a brand new Rolls Royce (a new American Standard) vs. a well cared for 1964 Chevy Impala (the 57 or 62 RIs). There is a mind set that even if offered the Rolls, those like me of this mindset are so comfortable and content with our trusty and well kept 1964 Impala that we still would prefer the Impala with for lack of a better word, all the inherent, "deficiencies" by modern day standards. This is especially true since the Impala has been a part of us for so many years and old habits, yes, even if by choice, are hard to break, especially if we have no interest or desire in breaking them. It's a comfort thing, both physically and mentally. The new Strats have different bridges, different shaped necks, different shaped fingerboards, different frets, different pickups and on and on. Again, all these are in response to the wishes of millions upon millions of Strat enthusiasts, right down to that 22nd fret! Yet, in my case and those of my ilk, granted, it surely looks like a Strat but that's where it ends for us.

The bottom line: If you aren't an old neurotic geezer, locked into your old ways like we happily are (for better or for worse), DIVE on a new American Standard and never look back!

Best of luck with your new Strat!!

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Post subject: Re: Vintage tuners vs normal tuners...
Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 8:27 pm
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Martian wrote:
imc_1121 wrote:
Pardon my ignorance, but what's the advantage of those 62 or 57 reissue strats over say an american std??

Martian you seem to have a vast knowledge about strats, could you give me your thoughts about the new american standards, as I'm thinking about buying one soon.


I know I could write a book on this but I'll try to be as brief as possible.

There really is no advantage to the 57 or 62 RIs, per se. Consider 1957 or 1962 technology vs. today's for starters. Back in those day too, the essential designs of the Strat and all its components were created around what Leo Fender and George Fullerton thought would be, "cutting edge". As is common knowledge, there were, "dogs" back then in terms of the individual specimen, there were, "gems" and of course, anything and everything in between. Nowadays, the current Fender dynasty revamped the Strat around what the millions upon millions of players over the decades declared essential for a, "gem" specimen and listened to what players wished for in terms of upgrading certain designs, eliminating certain perceived flaws and of course, this is all accomplished now with state of the art technology. Thus, this, "new" Strat guitar was born with for the most part, utmost uniform consistency. This is easily verifiable as you've read here on this forum time and time again, that "dogs" are now pretty hard to find as most brand spanking new American Standards are in fact, "gems".

At the risk of sounding like a contradiction, in my case, to prefer the old designs over the new American Standards is more a personal thing. I guess you can equate it to for example, a brand new Rolls Royce (a new American Standard) vs. a well cared for 1964 Chevy Impala (the 57 or 62 RIs). There is a mind set that even if offered the Rolls, those like me of this mindset are so comfortable and content with our trusty and well kept 1964 Impala that we still would prefer the Impala with for lack of a better word, all the inherent, "deficiencies" by modern day standards. This is especially true since the Impala has been a part of us for so many years and old habits, yes, even if by choice, are hard to break, especially if we have no interest or desire in breaking them. It's a comfort thing, both physically and mentally. The new Strats have different bridges, different shaped necks, different shaped fingerboards, different frets, different pickups and on and on. Again, all these are in response to the wishes of millions upon millions of Strat enthusiasts, right down to that 22nd fret! Yet, in my case and those of my ilk, granted, it surely looks like a Strat but that's where it ends for us.

The bottom line: If you aren't an old neurotic geezer, locked into your old ways like we happily are (for better or for worse), DIVE on a new American Standard and never look back!

Best of luck with your new Strat!!


I'm definitively getting one then, I was also wondering what is it that makes the new Am std's good compared to the previous ones?
Do you think it's worth it swapping the pickups for a set of CS 69's?


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Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:25 pm
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I have both......and I prefer "modern nomal". Now a choice you didn't give.........is locking tuners. I have those and those are my favorite.

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Post subject: Re: Vintage tuners vs normal tuners...
Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 6:28 am
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imc_1121 wrote:
I'm definitively getting one then, I was also wondering what is it that makes the new Am std's good compared to the previous ones?
Do you think it's worth it swapping the pickups for a set of CS 69's?


It all goes back to what I've already said: Today's Fender dynasty constantly listens, constantly improves and continually tries to manufacture the best production Strat ever known which is exactly what's going on as of this typing. The plethora of rave reviews surely support this. Additionally, if I were you, I'd seriously give the stock pickups a chance first as you may very well be pleasantly surprised at how versatile and accommodating they are. FWIW, I've owned a few real 69 Strats and the CS 69s are dead on. However, this is not necessarily a good thing as to my ear, the 69s in comparison to the stock pickups are a digression. The 69s do not have the pleasing, wide range frequency response and superior output of the stock ones. Rather, the 69s are of weaker output, have excessive and 'ice picky' highs, marginal midrange, so there is a definite 'clank' at all times and, I'll give them this, a nice tight bass. Besides, you can adjust the polepieces on the stock ones where you can't on the 69s. And with the 69s, unless you use a wound G string, the polepiece heights on the 69s are unbalanced for today's stylings.

If a pickup design was lousy back in 1969, just because it is 40 years later, it does not follow that said pickup or it's design will be radically transformed into a mystical, magical pickup today. Keep in mind in too that today's technology can produce a pickup with a predetermined sound and output with pinpoint precision and uniformity. Consequently and once again, I strongly recommend you sidestep the presumed pedigree of the 69s or any other 'boutique' set for that matter for the moment and let your ear be the judge of these new stock pickups. There is a fad which has seeped into many of today's players' subconscious which compels them to replace their OEM pickups immediately upon buying their new guitar with some kind of 'boutique' set. Now unless the player has a very specific tonality in mind where it has been proven to him or her that only, "Brand X's J-3009 Space Rat Rockstar Transducers" can give them exactly what they require, remember the old saying, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

As always, this is merely IMO, YMMV.

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Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:27 pm
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Gosh, I had lots to say on this subject. But it seems to have all been said already so eloquently by the gentleman from Mars. How frustrating!

:lol: - C


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Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 1:10 pm
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Ceri wrote:
Gosh, I had lots to say on this subject. But it seems to have all been said already so eloquently by the gentleman from Mars. How frustrating!

:lol: - C


:oops: :oops: :oops:

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Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 1:34 pm
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+1 what Martian said.It never ceases to amaze me the number of people that want to swap out the pickups on a guitar that they havent even recieved yet.No offense to the poster, but just because they are stock pickups doesnt mean they are inferior in some way.I have the stock pickups in mine and they have great tone.You dont hear many people swapping the American Standard pickups out because most people like them.And as Martian said, you have that whole G string problem.My SRV has "vintage staggered " pole pieces and there is a imbalance between the strings.I tried using a wound G set( i have 10s) and to make a full step bend you have to bend the string almost off the fretboard.My only solution was to go up in string gauge , risk destroying the pickup and try to adjust it or leave it and deal with it.I ended up leaving it.But honestly, those are some pretty descent pickups.Give them a try, you will be suprised.


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Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:32 pm
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Martian wrote:
Ceri wrote:
Gosh, I had lots to say on this subject. But it seems to have all been said already so eloquently by the gentleman from Mars. How frustrating!

:lol: - C


:oops: :oops: :oops:


:D Embarrassed, huh? Well let me make you more so.

I for one have learnt plenty from carefully reading your detailed electrical advice. I hope that continues; but I fear that sooner or later you are finally going to get bored explaining to folks how to get the extra two pickup selections, put their pickups in parallel, use the right pots for the job - and all the rest of it. Then you'll wander off and the quality of knowledge round here will drop proportionately.

Ah well: let's hope the rest of us will have learnt enough by then to cover at least the basics...

So there. Now blush at that.

Cheers - C


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Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:31 pm
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Ceri wrote:
:D Embarrassed, huh? Well let me make you more so.

I for one have learnt plenty from carefully reading your detailed electrical advice. I hope that continues; but I fear that sooner or later you are finally going to get bored explaining to folks how to get the extra two pickup selections, put their pickups in parallel, use the right pots for the job - and all the rest of it. Then you'll wander off and the quality of knowledge round here will drop proportionately.

Ah well: let's hope the rest of us will have learnt enough by then to cover at least the basics...

So there. Now blush at that.

Cheers - C


Let's face it, the majority of us here including myself are, "Guitar Junkies" and we NEVER get tired of talking about this stuff.

:oops: :oops: :oops: I do profoundly appreciate your compliments though and do not take them lightly. :oops: :oops: :oops:

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Post subject: Re: Vintage tuners vs normal tuners...
Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 6:31 pm
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Martian wrote:
imc_1121 wrote:
I'm definitively getting one then, I was also wondering what is it that makes the new Am std's good compared to the previous ones?
Do you think it's worth it swapping the pickups for a set of CS 69's?


It all goes back to what I've already said: Today's Fender dynasty constantly listens, constantly improves and continually tries to manufacture the best production Strat ever known which is exactly what's going on as of this typing. The plethora of rave reviews surely support this. Additionally, if I were you, I'd seriously give the stock pickups a chance first as you may very well be pleasantly surprised at how versatile and accommodating they are. FWIW, I've owned a few real 69 Strats and the CS 69s are dead on. However, this is not necessarily a good thing as to my ear, the 69s in comparison to the stock pickups are a digression. The 69s do not have the pleasing, wide range frequency response and superior output of the stock ones. Rather, the 69s are of weaker output, have excessive and 'ice picky' highs, marginal midrange, so there is a definite 'clank' at all times and, I'll give them this, a nice tight bass. Besides, you can adjust the polepieces on the stock ones where you can't on the 69s. And with the 69s, unless you use a wound G string, the polepiece heights on the 69s are unbalanced for today's stylings.

If a pickup design was lousy back in 1969, just because it is 40 years later, it does not follow that said pickup or it's design will be radically transformed into a mystical, magical pickup today. Keep in mind in too that today's technology can produce a pickup with a predetermined sound and output with pinpoint precision and uniformity. Consequently and once again, I strongly recommend you sidestep the presumed pedigree of the 69s or any other 'boutique' set for that matter for the moment and let your ear be the judge of these new stock pickups. There is a fad which has seeped into many of today's players' subconscious which compels them to replace their OEM pickups immediately upon buying their new guitar with some kind of 'boutique' set. Now unless the player has a very specific tonality in mind where it has been proven to him or her that only, "Brand X's J-3009 Space Rat Rockstar Transducers" can give them exactly what they require, remember the old saying, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

As always, this is merely IMO, YMMV.


What's the problem with vintage pickups and g strings or polepieces? Pardon my ignorance martian, but does this happen with any vintage type pickup?


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Post subject: Re: Vintage tuners vs normal tuners...
Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 7:40 pm
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imc_1121 wrote:
What's the problem with vintage pickups and g strings or polepieces? Pardon my ignorance martian, but does this happen with any vintage type pickup?


Back when the original Strat pickup was designed, all G strings were wound. Hence, the pole piece heights were permanently built into the pickups accordingly. Nowadays, with the vast majority of Strat players using plain (unwound) G strings, the G string on these vintage RI or even of course, the original, old Strat pickups have the G string's pole piece way too high which as a consequence, picks up the G string too loud in comparison to the others and because of this, it also exaggerates the B and E as being too weak. (How's that for a run-on sentence?) Then there's the now, varying neck radii too.

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