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Post subject: Some Questions About Shielding
Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:20 pm
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I'm really enjoying my second Strat--my new Highway One HSS. The Alnico III pickups have a lot more attitude than my older American Deluxe which is what I wanted. But after having been spoiled by the Samarium Cobalt Noiseless pups in the Deluxe, my ears have become attuned to silence. Except in the 2 and 5 (humbucker) positions all the other setting exhibit that old 60 cycle hum that I haven't heard since switching up to the Deluxe.

The Highway One may but doesn't seem to be painted with conductive paint in the cavity. My questions I would like to ask is:

1) How critical is shielding?

2) I can understand how shielding the pickup cavity with conductive material could help but how does that help with an open tremolo cover?

3) Most performers and techs seem to agree that the tremolo cover doesn't resonate in the same frequency as the tone wood effectively deadening the tone minutely and suggest removing it completely. Any opinions on this would be very helpful too.

4) Lastly, is there any benefit to using copper foil shielding over conductive paint? If labor were not an issue which would you chose--foil or paint?

Thanks you all my Strat sisters and bros!

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"If I don't see you no more in this world I'll meet you on the next one and don't be late... don't be late." -Jimi Hendrix

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Post subject: Re: Some Questions About Shielding
Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:27 pm
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Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:59 am
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manabu108 wrote:
I'm really enjoying my second Strat--my new Highway One HSS. The Alnico III pickups have a lot more attitude than my older American Deluxe which is what I wanted. But after having been spoiled by the Samarium Cobalt Noiseless pups in the Deluxe, my ears have become attuned to silence. Except in the 2 and 5 (humbucker) positions all the other setting exhibit that old 60 cycle hum that I haven't heard since switching up to the Deluxe.

The Highway One may but doesn't seem to be painted with conductive paint in the cavity. My questions I would like to ask is:

1) How critical is shielding?

2) I can understand how shielding the pickup cavity with conductive material could help but how does that help with an open tremolo cover?

3) Most performers and techs seem to agree that the tremolo cover doesn't resonate in the same frequency as the tone wood effectively deadening the tone minutely and suggest removing it completely. Any opinions on this would be very helpful too.

4) Lastly, is there any benefit to using copper foil shielding over conductive paint? If labor were not an issue which would you chose--foil or paint?

Thanks you all my Strat sisters and bros!



1) Its not vital, but it helps enough to make it worth doing

2) Dont bother shielding the trem at all

3) See #2

4) Its cleaner, neater and a whole lot easier!

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Post subject: Re: Some Questions About Shielding
Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:48 pm
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Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:01 pm
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manabu108 wrote:
1) How critical is shielding?


How much does the noise bother you? Think of it this way...some folks will listen to nothing but CD's on the highest quality audio equipment they can afford...I think the term is "audiophile". Then there's other folks like me who are still perfectly happy listening to their old LP's from time to time...I grew up with the scratches and the crackles so it doesn't really bother me at all with most music.

If the noise bothers you, then shield the guitar...otherwise, don't sweat it.

Quote:
2) I can understand how shielding the pickup cavity with conductive material could help but how does that help with an open tremolo cover?


Ideally if you shield the pickup cavity and the pickguard, essentially you have "surrounded" the pickups and electronics with shielding making the trem cavity pretty much irrelevant as far as electrical interference is concerned since it's behind the pickup cavity. If you take a piece of radio active material and place it in a lead lined box, you can no longer read the radio activity outside of the box so if you're standing behind the box, you're protected...same principle.

Quote:
3) Most performers and techs seem to agree that the tremolo cover doesn't resonate in the same frequency as the tone wood effectively deadening the tone minutely and suggest removing it completely. Any opinions on this would be very helpful too.


I'm not sure what you really mean by "most performers and techs" as the only place I've -ever- seen this even mentioned was recently on this forum (and the thread got a bit silly). Very simply, anyone who tells you that a trem cover makes a difference in regards to the tone of a guitar is pretty much full of sh*t. -IF- there is a difference (and that is a HUGE "if" there my friend), it is so absolutely insignificant that it can only be detected by very sensitive electronic measuring equipment. Some people may think they can hear a difference and as such try to rationalize it by this elaborate explanation but in most cases if they were put it to the proverbial "blind taste test", I doubt even a dog would notice the difference. Pickups, trems, string gauge...yea...those things make a difference in regards to how a guitar sounds. A small, thin, rectangular piece of plastic on the back of the body? If you really think it makes that much of a difference, then you need to take your pickguard off as well dude.

I won't speak for others but personally I leave the trem cover off the guitars I play the most for one reason...it makes it that much easier to change strings and adjust the setup. It has -NOTHING- to do with sound or tone.

Quote:
4) Lastly, is there any benefit to using copper foil shielding over conductive paint? If labor were not an issue which would you chose--foil or paint?


Hhmmm...I think there are some pros and cons either way. To me, the paint would be easier to use...just mask off around the cavity and spray. That said, the paint isn't going to provide as much actual shielding as the copper would because you're not going to have as much metal in the paint as you do in the sheet of copper. It's also better to completely disassemble the guitar for the paint...you don't want to accidentally spray the strings, bridge, neck, etc., etc.. The foil on the other hand, you can just loosen the strings, remove the pickguard and put the foil in. Also, if the instrument in question has the potential for any historical value and there are any numbers or markings inside the pickup cavity, paint is obviously going to destroy this where as copper foil could be fairly easily removed later.

That said, -if it were me- it would depend on the guitar I was working on. If it was one of my project instruments...i.e. a refinish or something, then yea...I wouldn't really have a problem with the paint. If it were an older/vintage instrument however or even something that just needed a "quick fix" then I'd probably opt for the copper foil.

Quote:
Thanks you all my Strat sisters and bros!


You're quite welcome.

Jim


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Post subject: Re: Some Questions About Shielding
Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:10 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:57 pm
Posts: 414
Location: Los Angeles, CA
lomitus wrote:
manabu108 wrote:
1) How critical is shielding?


How much does the noise bother you? Think of it this way...some folks will listen to nothing but CD's on the highest quality audio equipment they can afford...I think the term is "audiophile". Then there's other folks like me who are still perfectly happy listening to their old LP's from time to time...I grew up with the scratches and the crackles so it doesn't really bother me at all with most music.

If the noise bothers you, then shield the guitar...otherwise, don't sweat it.

Quote:
2) I can understand how shielding the pickup cavity with conductive material could help but how does that help with an open tremolo cover?


Ideally if you shield the pickup cavity and the pickguard, essentially you have "surrounded" the pickups and electronics with shielding making the trem cavity pretty much irrelevant as far as electrical interference is concerned since it's behind the pickup cavity. If you take a piece of radio active material and place it in a lead lined box, you can no longer read the radio activity outside of the box so if you're standing behind the box, you're protected...same principle.

Quote:
3) Most performers and techs seem to agree that the tremolo cover doesn't resonate in the same frequency as the tone wood effectively deadening the tone minutely and suggest removing it completely. Any opinions on this would be very helpful too.


I'm not sure what you really mean by "most performers and techs" as the only place I've -ever- seen this even mentioned was recently on this forum (and the thread got a bit silly). Very simply, anyone who tells you that a trem cover makes a difference in regards to the tone of a guitar is pretty much full of sh*t. -IF- there is a difference (and that is a HUGE "if" there my friend), it is so absolutely insignificant that it can only be detected by very sensitive electronic measuring equipment. Some people may think they can hear a difference and as such try to rationalize it by this elaborate explanation but in most cases if they were put it to the proverbial "blind taste test", I doubt even a dog would notice the difference. Pickups, trems, string gauge...yea...those things make a difference in regards to how a guitar sounds. A small, thin, rectangular piece of plastic on the back of the body? If you really think it makes that much of a difference, then you need to take your pickguard off as well dude.

I won't speak for others but personally I leave the trem cover off the guitars I play the most for one reason...it makes it that much easier to change strings and adjust the setup. It has -NOTHING- to do with sound or tone.

Quote:
4) Lastly, is there any benefit to using copper foil shielding over conductive paint? If labor were not an issue which would you chose--foil or paint?


Hhmmm...I think there are some pros and cons either way. To me, the paint would be easier to use...just mask off around the cavity and spray. That said, the paint isn't going to provide as much actual shielding as the copper would because you're not going to have as much metal in the paint as you do in the sheet of copper. It's also better to completely disassemble the guitar for the paint...you don't want to accidentally spray the strings, bridge, neck, etc., etc.. The foil on the other hand, you can just loosen the strings, remove the pickguard and put the foil in. Also, if the instrument in question has the potential for any historical value and there are any numbers or markings inside the pickup cavity, paint is obviously going to destroy this where as copper foil could be fairly easily removed later.

That said, -if it were me- it would depend on the guitar I was working on. If it was one of my project instruments...i.e. a refinish or something, then yea...I wouldn't really have a problem with the paint. If it were an older/vintage instrument however or even something that just needed a "quick fix" then I'd probably opt for the copper foil.

Quote:
Thanks you all my Strat sisters and bros!


You're quite welcome.

Jim


Thank you for your detailed analysis and response. You have been of great help.

_________________
"If I don't see you no more in this world I'll meet you on the next one and don't be late... don't be late." -Jimi Hendrix

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