Hey Ya'll,
I was at a local guitar show this last weekend and I had a really dumb question occur to me...how exactly does one identify a set of pickups? Obviously if they are Duncans or DiMarzio or something, they are usually marked as such (although not always and it can still be hard to tell) but let's say you see a set of pickups sitting on a table (or Ebay or Craigslist...) marked "83 USA" or something...how exactly do you know if they're legit or if they're some cheap piece of junk that someone just tossed in a bag? Are there any visual clues (other than obvious signs of age)? Something with the resistance reading perhaps?

In this particular instance, I was actually looking at a set of Duncans. They were clearly used and were in a Fender box. They guy wanted $100 for them. Now here's the thing...if they were "hot rails" or "cool rails", they certainly would have been worth it. However, if they were a set of those "Scorcher Rails" that often go on sale at GC for $35 each, then it's not a deal at all...and the damn things all look the same! And no...I didn't buy them because I just wasn't sure.

Another good example is with some of the newer Fender pickups...I was recently looking at a set of "Tex/Mex" (at least I -think- they were Tex/Mex...it's been a couple of months) that were supposedly brand new in the box and I gotta tell you, they looked virtually identical to my Vintage Noiseless!

I know you can check the resistance reading to make sure they're actually working but let's face it, once the cover is off, many if not most "Strat pickups" look fairly similar. In this day and age where a lot of folks are out to make a quick buck and lots of folks will sell ya bogus crap if they can (I saw at least 2 fake Strats at the show), how the devil does a person know what kind of pickups they're getting if they're used and how can one be sure before buying?

I look forward to hearing some thoughts on this one...

Peace,
Jim

The only surefire way is to buy new. I think manufacturers design things so that, thats the only way you can 100% guarantee. There are bound to be other things, wire colour, flatwork/bobin markings. You just need someone more knolwledgable than me to point out the various discrepancies.

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No no and no

Unfortunately, many pickups are simply not labeled very well at all.

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James Burton Upgrade Telecaster
Hot Rodded Am Fat Strat Texas Special (now featuring Kinman Traditional II pickups)
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SWR California Blonde
Pedals Pedals Pedals

Niki is right. fender design their pickups so Strat pickups look like Strat pickups, and tele like tele. other designers do the same thing. i think it is a conscious effort to prevent a strong 2nd hand market. If the only way you can be sure what you are getting is the real thing, is to buy new, it is good for the manufacturers.

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I'm not an expert, but I play one on the internet.

That makes sense to me Niki and 12B. Maybe forum member Martain or CV would know how to tell. I sure don't but I always buy new guitars and never mod!

Ok...I'll buy all that. Kind of what I figured anyways. It does raise an interesting new question though...does the sound of pickups change with age?

Clearly there are some highly debatable issues when it comes to the sound of "old pickups" and it seems a good portion of that has to do more with the way they were made in the first place as apposed to their actual age....different materials, different winding process, etc.. A speaker is obviously different...you have "moving parts" and such that over time will start to wear and the sound of a speaker will change (some might say "mellow") as it ages. With pickups however, give or take some (theoretical) loss of magnetism it's not like that much changes in a guitar pickup as it gets older.

I guess what I'm getting at here is, beyond the "collectors value", is there really that much of an advantage sound-wise to getting older pickups? To me it doesn't really seem like there's that much...beyond the issues already discussed that is (give or take the cost of new vs the cost of used), but again here I'd like to hear some peoples thoughts.


Again, I'm just tossing some ideas out to the wind just to see which way the blow.

Peace,
Jim

Electrical components do drift in value over time, caps, resistors in amps and whatnot. The main argument I see for people arguing the pro's of handwired amps. Their usualy old, components have drifted a little, sound alters slightly.
I cant see why that doesnt happen with pickup circuits as a whole. As Bill Lawrence says, you have to consider the whole pickup circuit in design. Not just one part.

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No no and no

Absolutely the whole circuit. Every wire, pot and switch does stuff to the "sound."

And the strings and nut and tailpiece. And to a lesser extent, the body and neck.

And half the total sound is the amp. And don't forget the pick and room acoustics.

BTW, magnets only lose about 1 or so percent of their oomph over a normal lifespan.

The only after market replacement pickups I buy, are Seymour Duncans.

They have a small white label on the underside of the pickup detailing the p/up model number.

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Fender Highway & Classic 60s Strats, Fender Toronado, Telecaster, Gretsch Projet, Charvel 3, PRS SE Soapbar II & Custom 24, Burns Batwing and many others!

I know that my Dimarzio Super Distortion says it is a Dimarzio Super Distortion on the back of the pick up itself.

RK

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RK

2007 Fender Highway 1
2012 American Deluxe
2015 MIM Dave Murray HHH
2010 Fender Blacktop
1987 Fender Avalon Acoustic
2012 Marshall DSL 15 watt head

Wow I am really surprised Martian has not popped up on yhis post yet as if anyone can answer the pup question of a way of knowing it is him. As far as the way a killer vintage ax sounds and plays I believe you jusy have to weigh all the components of the ax, from the wood to the electronics and it all adds up to a keeper. I really believe the body wood has a lot to do with the tone. I was just reading an article with Jimmy Page talking about his #1 Les Paul that he bought from Joe Walsh and he was saying when the team from Gibson came over to take it apart when they did the signature that the bridge pickup was changed as the original died before a show in Australia in 74 also the bridge tone knob was replaced with a push pull pot to put the pups out of phase so all these things would have to effect the tone. I also read so many interviews with top players who say a lot of vintage axes are dogs and like anything else you have to go through a few to find a keeper. That is what shocks me when I see someone buy a vintage ax on ebay for 50 or 100K. Unless your Bill Gates you have to be insane to drop that kind of cash on something you never heard in person.

Well, here I am and thank you!

There are a lot of ways to tell but at the risk of giving a, "politician's" answer, I'd have to eyeball the pickup. There are certain trace, stamp and construction markings and dimensions as well as coil and construction techniques, etc. To compound this, there are some outstanding 'boutique' manufacturers which try to duplicate the originals the best they can so it can be tough at times even to a trained eye. And let us not forget, there's the "home brewed" lot who take in other brands' destroyed pickups and rewind and/or 'modify' them themselves for various and assorted reasons.

As far as measuring a pickup's, "personality", gauss meters, oscilloscopes and other interrelated meters all must take samplings to verify output and tonality via resonant peaks, capacitance, possible Eddy Currents etc, etc. There is no, "armchair" way to verify this with a VOM. At best, all you'll get is DC resistance which is only one integer of the overall equation and on face value, can be quite misleading.

It must be noted that an aftermarket pickup business was unheard of when SO many of the original pickups were designed way back when and once these pickups were installed in the guitar, they were presumed to be entombed in the particular instrument forever more. Therefore, all sorts of identifying markings were quite unnecessary and superfluous and as anyone can see, it is virtually impossible to mistake a PAF for a Strat pickup which were automatically attributed to Gibson and Fender respectively.

On a common sense level, there are certain pickups which counterfeiters pretty much wouldn't bother with. For example, the money is in trying to master and bootleg a real 'smoking' sounding PAF rather than trying to duplicate say for example, a 'run of the mill' 1989 Gibson humbucker. So, I'd be pretty secure in knowing that a 57/62 set of Fender Strat pickups are the real deal as there will never be a collector's demand for them but again, I would, need to "eyeball" them first if I had any dubious notions about them. Of course, this all culminates into if the seller has a positive, "track record" or a reputation to uphold with the public, well then, no worries. If the sale was a "one shot" from a complete stranger, "Caveat emptor."

FWIW, IMO, given the particular circumstances the OP was in, a misrepresentation would have been picked off by someone sooner than later. And in those circumstances, that's the last place the seller would want to be accused of deception, be it his fault or not.

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You dig?

You can for sure tell a 57' from a 62' the first are so randomly wound and 62 are fairly uniform. They both used the same black flat work . You had two more years before gray. Then it was not until early 70's the grey bobins come to being the the mids brought the flat slugs. 80's are just hard to tell if not marked. Its alway easier to date things under the hood by the switches and such.

Todays pickup trivia is.
What does PAF stand for?

Answer; Patent Apllied For
PAF label was stuck on the bottom of Gibson HB pickups until the early 60's. People just started calling them PAF

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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

Thomas Jefferson

Good trivia question CV!! So there is really no difference except age huh?

If you get a real PAF pickup you have one from like 62 back even though they had the patent in 59 but no number was issue at the time so they were labeled PAF. The thing stuck as a name for Seth Lover's pickup.

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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

Thomas Jefferson