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Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 5:59 pm
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Twelvebar wrote:
To me it looks an awful lot like an old El degas. But although I have seen a few variations on their headstock shape, I am not sure i have seen a degas with that particular shape. But I am sure I have seen that shape somewhere in the dim past. Degas were the primary knock-offs in my area back in that time, not sure about elsewhere. As stated above, a lot of the knock-offs were made as contract work by certain factories, who would just take orders for x amount of guitars made on pattern x, with some minor variations. might be impossible to completely narrow it down at this point.

I guess the first thing I would do is assess the areas where there is the most damage. Try and identify what you absolutely need to do, before considering any of the cosmetic details. It is really hard from these pictures to narrow down work that needs to be done.

I would definitely fix any cracks in the neck pocket. You can probably do this fairly easily. You may have to gently pry the crack open in order to wick some thin (or thinned out, if you know what you are doing,) glue deeply into the crack. I love the Titebond products for this stuff. (The plain product is probably best for this type of work, rather than any of their specialty variations,) or maybe their hide glue variant, in the brown bottle.

Ceri set the standard, for repairing on his thread. Personally i would look on this as a learning project, and try to do all the work i could on it. However if your goal is just to get it playing you may not want to pour in the extra time to cover all the details, if they aren't actually vital. you may be happy with just tackling the structural damage, and hiding the other flaws.

measuring tools are your friend at this point. Unless you are prepared to fill holes and redrill, you are going to need very accurate measurements in order to find replacement parts. Especially for your bridge. depending on the age of your guitar, and the factory of origin, you might be measuring in metric. if you do choose to install new hardware, you still need to do some accurate measuring to place it.

If you can't find a drop in replacement bridge, which might be likely you will have to plug the existing holes, and redrill.

At this point you may have to do so much work, that you will have to consider dealing with the finish. Now if this is a lacquer finish, repair and touch up work isn't too out of the question. But you will have some work cut out for you in matching colours, and blending. If it is a poly finish, then blending can be a lot trickier.

You may even choose a complete refinish, and that is a whole separate operation. A bridge to cross when you get there.

I guess to sum up:
Identify your repair goals, how much time effort, budget,and hassle you are willing to devote to the project, and what your expectations are for the finished project.

Identify key areas that MUST be done, no matter the goals. Are there structural damages, like the neck pocket crack, or a separating top, that have to be repaired, and aren't just a cosmetic or trivial defect? What parts need repairing or replacing? What do i need to buy, or maybe manufacture?

then you need to assess how much other work will result as a byproduct of the work you plan to do. IE will the repair work mean doing other work? Will you be able to fix this without marring the finish, or without creating other woodworking?(will you need to do some cutting to be able to access damaged areas, for gluing etc, and then have to patch?)

heh long winded to be sure, but there's probably a lot more to think about than I have mentioned.


Thanks Twelvebar! That is the kind of input I'm looking for.

I have kind of given up on getting an ID on this girl. So I'll just focus on getting her back into shape.

I do want to keep the original finish. The way she looks is my last priority at this point. I'll deal with that last. If other work I do ends up causing me to have to redo the finish then so be it. But I'll try not to allow that to happen. If I can.

I want to repair the crack that runs from the neck pocket all the way down through the bridge pup cavity. It's actually a separation of the lamination where the two parts of the body wood were joined. It is about an 1/16 of an inch wide. It actually looks like it might have always been there. In the neck pocket there is a portion that was filled (right under the 1 in the number 31) So it looks like it was there during the manufacturing process. I thought maybe it was a separation of glue over time. But it seems the more I look at it that it was always there. it is about an 1/16 of an inch deep. Even if it was always there. I'll be repairing it just for the practice.

After that I want to replace the small amount of wood missing from under the front side of the bridge pup cavity. It is right under the top. About a 1/4 inch is missing. You probably can not see it from my horrible pictures. But its there. So there is no support for that thin strip between the bridge and middle pups so I NEED to fix that.

Next I will have to fill and re drill the holes for the neck attachment in both the neck and neck pocket. Since someone used those huge carpentry screws to attach the neck I will have to repair that problem.

What would be the best approach to filling those holes in both the neck and neck pocket? I'm sure there is a better way then my old "jerry rigged" method of hammering in wood toothpicks to fill the hole then re drilling. How should I fill those?

I doubt I can find a replacement bridge. So I already plan on removing the posts and plugging and re installing new ones.

A local shop has used PAF pups out of original LP's that he kept when he upgraded customers pups for them. He will sell em to me dirt cheap. So I am planning on using those. Then I'll replace all electronics. I was planning on a standard LP wiring scheme. Is there any interesting electronic mods I might be interested in for LPs? I have no idea since I know nothing about LP's. If it ain't a Fender I'm clueless it seems. (I'm still clueless on some things even if it is a Fender :lol: )

I want to get her back up and running and see what she sounds like. Then I'll deal with the cosmetics. After I'm satisfied with her sound.

If she sounds like a hunk of junk after all that. Then I'll practice something funky on the finish. If she sounds good. Then I'll keep her the way she is and just clean her up a bit.

Do you guys see anything in my plan that is missing? Or a bad idea?

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2002 Squire 20th Aniv. Strat
30 year old Les Paul copy which is currently in the process of being rebuilt.


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Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:48 pm
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Your best bet for plugging the holes in the neck, and body are to clean up the existing holes. Then make some mahogany(if that's what the body is,) dowels of the appropriate diameter. in fact you might be able to buy some doweling that will fit. Plug the hole, trim, then carefully sand flush.

You may want to put in a Nashville bridge. it is a modern variation of the Tune-o-matic.

there are all kinds of wiring mods for an LP. You might want to look into using push/pull pots and coil splitting the humbuckers, or phase switching, or...

Good luck and keep us up to speed.

I know i haven't updated any of my posts, but I kinda picked up some temporary extra work, so I haven't been busy with my projects :cry: :cry:

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Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:20 pm
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Twelvebar wrote:
Your best bet for plugging the holes in the neck, and body are to clean up the existing holes. Then make some mahogany(if that's what the body is,) dowels of the appropriate diameter. in fact you might be able to buy some doweling that will fit. Plug the hole, trim, then carefully sand flush.

You may want to put in a Nashville bridge. it is a modern variation of the Tune-o-matic.

there are all kinds of wiring mods for an LP. You might want to look into using push/pull pots and coil splitting the humbuckers, or phase switching, or...

Good luck and keep us up to speed.

I know i haven't updated any of my posts, but I kinda picked up some temporary extra work, so I haven't been busy with my projects :cry: :cry:


Thanks for the info Twelvebar!

I think I'll start a new thread once I get going on this project and have some new info or photos of work completed.

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2009 Fender Strat MIM
2002 Squire 20th Aniv. Strat
30 year old Les Paul copy which is currently in the process of being rebuilt.


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Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:18 am
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Hi Scot: been away so I'm only now catching up on some of this stuff.

Gotta say, Twelvebar's post at the end of page one is minor classic. Lot of good stuff there.

Couple of tiny suggestions. If you are shopping for a new bridge or tail just try it in the existing inserts first, before going to the trouble of extracting them, filling, re-drilling, etc. Often makers use different screw threads - but occasionally they are the same. Save yourself that bit of the job if you can.

Little supplimentary thought on something Twelvebar said. He mentioned the idea of making your own mahogany dowels to plug holes with. That can be a better approach than buying them because commercially made dowel will (very reasonably) have the grain running from one end of the stick to the other. However, this would be at right-angles to the grain of the wood you are inserting it into, and some would consider that a structural disadvantage - and in some people's minds a tonal compromise too (though that is a highly rarefied notion...).

Making at least a short dowel is easier than you might think. First, drill out the hole to a regular size, maybe 6 mm for the neck screw holes and 10 or 11 for bridge post insert holes. Then saw a small piece of mahogany in such a way that the grain runs across it, not along its length. About 50 mm long by a little larger than the hole in width and breadth should be good.

You can then rough shape it to a cylinder with first a rasp and then a sanding block. This will be faster than you imagine. After that you can insert it into the chuck of a drill, preferably in a press, or best a pillar drill. Switch on and you have a simple lathe and you can use your sanding block to quickly shape the rod to exactly the right dimensions. You want it sized so that it will slide readily into the hole. Not too loose, but not tight either, or inserting it will push the glue out of the join and weaken it. Glue takes up a small but significant space, which must be allowed for.

Put a little glue round the entry to the hole as well as on the dowel, so that it is driven ahead into the cavity rather than being scraped off as the plug goes in. And after all that effort remember to align the grain to that of the body.

Sounds laborious, but in fact you could do it almost as quickly as you've read this post. And it's the Rolls-Royce solution.

Last thing: you may or may not find off-cuts of mahogany at your local lumber supplier. But you will very likely find sapele (pronounced sa-pee-ly): that is a West African timber that most, including top makers, use these days instead of hard-to-source mahogany. I was reading just the other day Mr Bob Taylor of Taylor Guitars claiming he liked it better than "real" mahogany, so at any rate we don't need to be scornful about it.

With exotic hardwoods timber merchants are usually happy to sell you just the cut you need, so you don't have to worry about paying out for an eight foot plank from which to make a couple of tiny dowels...

Good luck - C


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Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:47 pm
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Thanks for the help Ceri and twelvebar. I think I might have another option. I'd like your opinion on it.

I found both screws for the tail piece and the second and last screw for the bridge. So I will use the tail piece as planned and not have to replace the pole peices for the bridge. (The second screw was in the floor in the corner of the closet where the guitar has been for ever) So I'm hoping I might find the bridge in there some day lol

Even if I can't at least I can still use the orginal mounts. Now I just need to find a bridge with similar size mounting holes. All the ones I looked at had smaller holes then the original. So what I was thinking was to just dril the hole in the actual bridge to enlarge it so it will fit over the orginal mounting poles. The new bridges I looked at all seemed to have enough material around the mounting screw holes to be able to enlarge them enough without compromising the function of the bridge or even integrity of it.

Do you think that would be a safe way to go? Just enlarge the holes on the new bridge and use it with the old hardware? Or do you see a problem in this plan that I'm not aware of?

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2002 Squire 20th Aniv. Strat
30 year old Les Paul copy which is currently in the process of being rebuilt.


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