I know this isn't the best place to ask this, but I consider this my home on the web so I thought I'd give it a shot.

I have a Les Paul copy that I rencenty tore apart to rewire. I know it is at least 24 years old because it has been in my closet for at least that long. It is a bolt on neck so I know its a copy. My question is this....

I removed all the wireing (what was left of it anyway) I removed all the controls and pots as well. I basically stripped it down to just the neck and body.

I'd like to find out who made this copy and what material the body is made out of. The headstock is painted black like a regular LP but there is no Brand name on it. I checked the neck pocket, the butt end of the neck, and inside the pup and control cavities and there are no marking whatsoever anywhere that says who made this thing. It is routed for 3 pups. The only mark on this thing is in the neck pocket. It is the #31 and is marked in black marker or maybe paint. I cant really tell. Other then that there is no other markings anywhere.

I am going to rewire the entire guitar and get her back in tip top shape. But I would like to know what I have. I checked over on the Gibson site and that site only deals with real Gibson LPs.

How many companies were making Les Paul copies 20 plus years ago?
I can not find a serial number anywhere on her.
Any idea how I can find out more about this thing?

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2009 Fender Strat MIM
2002 Squire 20th Aniv. Strat
30 year old Les Paul copy which is currently in the process of being rebuilt.

Many companies made copies of the LP, mostly from Japan. Names include Ibanez, Ventura, Aria, Conrad, and the list goes on. Many of these guitars contained the same hardware as the other, and were built by the same factories, with different names painted on them. Most of the factories wre contract houses, that built guitars to whatever spec the importer asked for, and put the name of that distributer on it

I have a Ventura L6S copy, and it sounds similar to your copy. You may want to check out Ventura guitars, and the rest of the names I listed.

Does the neck plate say "Made in Japan"?

You may never know for sure who built that, but you can probably put the pieces of the puzzle together based on researching these and find what factory it likely came from.

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Guitars:
1. mid 70's Ventura MIJ Gibson l6-s clone (Pre-lawsuit) in Black with Rosewood FB and EMG 81 BR/ 85 Neck
2. ESP KH2 Neck Thru
3. 2008 Am Std Strat in 3 tone sunburst

the neck plate does not say anything on it. If I remember correctly. I'll check when I get home from work. I wonder if this things will sell for anything on Ebay once I get her running again. If I can make a little money on her then I'll use it towards the other project guitars.

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2009 Fender Strat MIM
2002 Squire 20th Aniv. Strat
30 year old Les Paul copy which is currently in the process of being rebuilt.

pictures or it isn't real!!!

well, maybe someone will recognize it!

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I'm not an expert, but I play one on the internet.

I tired to take some close up pix of the important parts. But they came out bad and had to see the detail. (I need to learn how to take close ups with my camera)

I'll see if I can work something out

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2009 Fender Strat MIM
2002 Squire 20th Aniv. Strat
30 year old Les Paul copy which is currently in the process of being rebuilt.

Here is a link to my photo album I started for the LP rebuild project. Some of the pics are not great quality because I can not figure out how to use my Canon camera to get good close ups. (any advice on that would be greatly appreciated)

Here is the link
http://s992.photobucket.com/albums/af50 ... 20Project/

please let me know what you think. Any suggestions to get her up and running again. Any help you can offer. I did take her to a luthier who verfied it is mahogany. But he had no idea about it's origins. He thought it might be an old Tokai (sp?) After talking to my buddy who used to own this thing it turns out this thing is probably closer to 30 years old. We figured out that I have had it for at least 24 years. He had it for one or two. He got it from his brother who had it for at least 5 years.

So I'd really like to know what this thing is

I did post a thread about this on a Les Paul site in the "non Gibson" Les Paul section. But it seems that the Gibson bunch are not as friendly to new comers to the board as us Fender people are. Go figure

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2009 Fender Strat MIM
2002 Squire 20th Aniv. Strat
30 year old Les Paul copy which is currently in the process of being rebuilt.

Tokia would have a impressed serial number on the back of the headstock. Plus the headstock is wrong and the keys the pickups. A bolt on!!! Its not a Tokai!

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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

Thomas Jefferson

Bolt on neck on a Les Paul, huh?

Sounds a bit like a kit guitar - and the way the top of the headstock flairs out looks something similar (but not identical) to Saga kit guitars:

http://www.guitarpartsusa.com/item--Sag ... e--PROD341

I have no idea whether anyone was making kit guitars 20 - 30 years ago, though. And the binding round the headstock is a bit up market for a kit, as is the third pickup cavity.

If not a kit then without markings you are really never going to know which factory this came from I'm afraid. So forget about that and restore it beautifully and turn a sow's ear into a silk purse. Or use it to keep warm this winter...

Regarding the camera, no matter what model it is it will almost certainly have a "macro" setting. Maybe a "super macro" too, for real close up. Find that setting: that's how to take photos near to.

And even on macro you'll find things work better if you place the camera a few inches further away and zoom in for the ultra detail. Easier to focus and less weird perspective distortion.

Cheers - C

Thank you for the info guys!

I'm thinking I might just replace all the electrical, patch up the crack in the neck pocket and pup cavities where the laminate is seperating. Then clean up the pup cavities themselves. Replace some of the missing wood from between the pup cavities. Then clean up this paint job and replace all hardware and pups. Reassemble and see what she sounds like. If she sounds like hell at that point then I'll tear her down and use her to practice finishing on.

So looking at it what would you guys to do get her up and running again? What coarse of action would you take in approaching this project? I'd really like to hear what you guys who know what you are doing would do with this project. Especially Twelvebar and you Ceri, after watching you take that Strat body with the bad routing job and turn her into a "show pony" I would love to hear your take on this project.

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2009 Fender Strat MIM
2002 Squire 20th Aniv. Strat
30 year old Les Paul copy which is currently in the process of being rebuilt.

Okay, here is my take ...

Bolt-on neck Les Paul copies have been made for decades. So, I would not not put too much energy into finding the ancestry. Having a bolt-on neck is not the end of the world ... there are lots of nice gits with bolt-on's incl Strats, of course. The body looks like a three piece? That, to me, is a decent sign that this was made by someone who - at least - had a clue about making guitars. If you have confidence in the quality of the neck, then I'd say this is a project likely worth venturing on ...

First off, I would try to not use any of the components from the original guitar. If the stud holes are standard size, get some replacemnets (perferably a name brand like Schaller) for the tuners, bridge, and tail piece. You can get some very affordable all pre-wired kits off of eBay. Then find a deal on some GOOD used pickups (preferably Dimarzio or Gibson, if it was me -- get some good pickups, regardless). Then put it together, and see how well she flies.

I think it is a pretty guitar....]

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Laughing out loud with fear and hope, I have a desperate plan ...

Hi Scot: I'd try and save the finish if I could. But if it's damaged too much then I'd strip it and use the guitar as a tryout for some finish I wanted to practice. I'd try and think of a finish Gibson don't offer, so's there would be something special about the guitar that made it unusual.

I'm not expert enough at Gibson's finish range, but I can think of all sorts of unusual things they've done over the decades, so it's hard to second guess them. But a Navy Blue Burst could be funky, for example. Or a dark green burst - look up a color called Viridian: that would make a tasty burst.

Or howsabout a sparkle finish? I've seen those on Les Pauls, but they are unusual, and I'm sure you could come up with one Gibson haven't done. Come to that, how about a Viridian Sparkle? With matching headstock?

And I'd work out a nice logo made from my name and create a decal or inlay for it to put on that headstock.

There ya go: that's what I'd do.

Cheers - C

Thanks for the reply Ceri

I am thinking of starting off by trying to keep the original finish. I like the yellowing (from age) of the binding on the body and neck. So I want to keep that if at all possible. She is not in tooo bad a shape. She has some dings and nicks and so on. Basically it looks exactly like what it is. A 30 year old guitar. More of a closet classic since that is where it has been for the last 24 years. So I'd like to keep the look of her age if possible. Which I think I'll be able to do. If I can't I will for sure try something a little different. Something a little funky. (something I would never subject a Fender to)

My buddy that had her before me played the hell out of her. The frets show the wear and tear. I doubt she could take a fret job. So I'll need to replace those. The frets are about half the height they started out at. With a lot of nasty flat spots.

I do have the tail piece/end stop so I'll re-use that. The bridge was missing. So I'll need to get a new one. But I only have one of the screws that holds the bridge in place. So I will have to pull the posts and re-insert the new ones. So I can install the new bridge. I checked into getting the original spec bridge but apparently the companies making the knock off LP's would use multiple bridges from all different manufacturers. So finding one that would have the matching screw size and threading is next to impossible because I can't track it down since I have no idea who made the guitar in the first place. I would have to keep buying after market bridges in hopes I would get lucky and find one that matches up. I have checked 4 brands I could find locally and none of them match it. So I'll be replacing the whole set up.

I'll replace the tuners as well. Same reason. Some of the tuning pegs are missing. And one or two of the tuners don't work. So I'm in the same situation as the bridge.

The problem with replacing some but not all the parts will be that they wont look the same. So I will have to "chemically age" the new parts in hopes to match the old one. Even if I replaced the old end stop I would still want to have hardware that matched the age of the rest of her. So I would have to "age" them anyway. A local shop gave me tips on how to try to age them. So I'll give it a shot.

Would you even bother with repairing or filling the pup cavities where there is a gap where the original pieces were glued together? (it looks like the glue shrank back in that area. But not the rest of it. Actually I know that answer. Of course you would. I saw your build and what you did to those pup cavities to get them back into proper shape on your baby blue beauty.

So how would you take care of that specific area?

Twelvebar - how would you approach this rebuild/repair?
Anyone else? I'd like to hear from anyone on ideas on how to approach this rebuild.

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2009 Fender Strat MIM
2002 Squire 20th Aniv. Strat
30 year old Les Paul copy which is currently in the process of being rebuilt.

Gibson LP forum

been there, done that

The gibson people don't seem to be as friendly or helpful to newcomers to their forum as Fender people are. I guess if they don't know you they don't reply to the thread.

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2009 Fender Strat MIM
2002 Squire 20th Aniv. Strat
30 year old Les Paul copy which is currently in the process of being rebuilt.

To me it looks an awful lot like an old El degas. But although I have seen a few variations on their headstock shape, I am not sure i have seen a degas with that particular shape. But I am sure I have seen that shape somewhere in the dim past. Degas were the primary knock-offs in my area back in that time, not sure about elsewhere. As stated above, a lot of the knock-offs were made as contract work by certain factories, who would just take orders for x amount of guitars made on pattern x, with some minor variations. might be impossible to completely narrow it down at this point.

I guess the first thing I would do is assess the areas where there is the most damage. Try and identify what you absolutely need to do, before considering any of the cosmetic details. It is really hard from these pictures to narrow down work that needs to be done.

I would definitely fix any cracks in the neck pocket. You can probably do this fairly easily. You may have to gently pry the crack open in order to wick some thin (or thinned out, if you know what you are doing,) glue deeply into the crack. I love the Titebond products for this stuff. (The plain product is probably best for this type of work, rather than any of their specialty variations,) or maybe their hide glue variant, in the brown bottle.

Ceri set the standard, for repairing on his thread. Personally i would look on this as a learning project, and try to do all the work i could on it. However if your goal is just to get it playing you may not want to pour in the extra time to cover all the details, if they aren't actually vital. you may be happy with just tackling the structural damage, and hiding the other flaws.

measuring tools are your friend at this point. Unless you are prepared to fill holes and redrill, you are going to need very accurate measurements in order to find replacement parts. Especially for your bridge. depending on the age of your guitar, and the factory of origin, you might be measuring in metric. if you do choose to install new hardware, you still need to do some accurate measuring to place it.

If you can't find a drop in replacement bridge, which might be likely you will have to plug the existing holes, and redrill.

At this point you may have to do so much work, that you will have to consider dealing with the finish. Now if this is a lacquer finish, repair and touch up work isn't too out of the question. But you will have some work cut out for you in matching colours, and blending. If it is a poly finish, then blending can be a lot trickier.

You may even choose a complete refinish, and that is a whole separate operation. A bridge to cross when you get there.

I guess to sum up:
Identify your repair goals, how much time effort, budget,and hassle you are willing to devote to the project, and what your expectations are for the finished project.

Identify key areas that MUST be done, no matter the goals. Are there structural damages, like the neck pocket crack, or a separating top, that have to be repaired, and aren't just a cosmetic or trivial defect? What parts need repairing or replacing? What do i need to buy, or maybe manufacture?

then you need to assess how much other work will result as a byproduct of the work you plan to do. IE will the repair work mean doing other work? Will you be able to fix this without marring the finish, or without creating other woodworking?(will you need to do some cutting to be able to access damaged areas, for gluing etc, and then have to patch?)

heh long winded to be sure, but there's probably a lot more to think about than I have mentioned.

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I'm not an expert, but I play one on the internet.