Something has been really frustrating me lately, I've noticed that even with my knowledge of the scales, chords, techniques, etc. I still have the hardest time phrasing Every time I play there's such a lack of smoothness. It almost feels like I'm trying to match my playing with the beat rather than with the chords and the music and even though I know my way around the fretboard I still make mistakes, or I don't end up hitting the note I want to hit, or I hit the note and it doesn't end up sounding right 'cause I messed up on the attack. Ughhh I guess this is the thing that takes a lifetime to master. I can write a solo, I can improvise, but my phrasing sucks. I don't know how to improve it, and what's difficult is actually teaching it because it's such an individual thing the way we play. It's possible that maybe I wasn't used to the key I was playing in. I usually play in Em and Am with a kind of blues progression. I was practicing my phrasing in D minor and it was more Santana-like, but still I just don't get it. How do I improve my phrasing? I know about listening to good phrasing B.B King, Clapton, Gilmour, etc. I know about having breath between notes. I know theory, or at least a decent amount. My ears are better now that it's been 3 years. What I want to know is what can I do physically? How much breath should there be between notes? When do I play fast or slow? How do I avoid mistakes? I want to learn how to make my improvisations flow rather than sound forced. Sometimes it gets very SRV, even though it should be more smoother and less intense. Idk, any info will help. Thank you.

How do you get great phrasing?

First of all, do you play in a band or alone? If you're in a band, it's actually easier to develop better phrasing (especially if you have a good drummer behind you).

If you're just a living room rock star, the best way to get better with your phrasing is to get some backing tracks and go from there.

You sound like you want to play bluesy classic rock; mistake number one with most people with bad phrasing is "fear of the empty space in the song". Listen to Freddie King; as wild and ripping as some of his playing was, he actually played quite sparely, with just a few notes played in each phrase. BB King plays even less.

The drummer in my band noted that I had problems with not pausing or "breathing" in my solos, but not my rhythm lines (where my phrasing was much better). I seemed afraid to pause for more than a millisecond. He also figured out why:

Two of the guitarists that I had played with when I was first learning to play were "solo hogs"; they felt that they had to solo every time someone else solo'd, and try to "top" the first soloist (solo-er?). If I paused for a second, even if it was just to reset my phrasing or my hand, those competitive jackasses would step on my solo. (The drummer had played with both of them in different bands with me, too).

After he pointed this out, I went back and analyzed my playing, and started to record, write and play by (and for) myself--no other guitarist or soloist present (of course, I left room for other instruments and even other soloists, but I would write the song with the idea that my solo would drive the song, if need be). My phrasing got better, because I knew no one else was going to interrupt my solo. I also got more confident that I was going to do just fine, and not have to try to compete. The new "other" guitarist (we both play rhythm and lead; I play harmonica and slide also) isn't an insensitive, insecure overplayer either--he understands that not every song needs two (or more) solos, and that a well-placed empty spot adds to the performance.

I have since not allowed "solo hogs" in my band--I might jam with one, but I will make him look like the jerk that he is by "under-playing" instead of trying to compete with their ridiculous over-playing.

I love a good ripping solo, but I would rather hear one well-placed Jimmie Vaughan lick than a million overblown notes.

The second answer to your question, "How do I improve my phrasing?"; the same way you get to Carnegie Hall--PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!

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Screamin' Armadillos
Texas Roadhouse Music
Guitar/Slide Guitar/Harp/Vocals

well like you said in your original post, it is one of the things that takes a long time to master (not that I've mastered it, I'll always be a student and not a "master")

But for me it was thinking about the phrasing as being the language it is. It's not just notes, they're words. It's not a lick, it's a sentence. What are you actually saying when you play? And what words are you emphasising? *sp?*

an example I give my students is this, think of a sentence, any sentence, then play it on your guitar. say:

"We went to the mall" is the sentence/phrase you're going to play.

Do you play it as

WE went to the mall
we WENT to the mall
we went TO the mall
we went to THE mall
we went to the MALL

it's a concept that's hard to explain in text over the net, it's much easier in person with a student and a guitar in my hands. But honestly really don't think about what lick you're going to play, think about what you're actually saying.

Say like the guy who posted after you talking about solo hogs. So he just solos all over the place and it's your turn now and the thing going through your head is: "I hate that motherf**ker!"

I
Hate
That
Muth
er
f**k
er

7 syllables, 7 notes.

Play it like you'd say it.

I hope this helps bro, like I said it's hard to explain in text and it's something you're going to work on for the rest of your life. And though I'm not rich and famous....(or am I? lol) this is what goes through my head when it's time to play leads.

Cheers

I didn't even realize my phrasing sucked until after I started listening to people like Freddie King, B.B. King and especially Jimmie Vaughan. It sort of dawned on me that instead of ripping out a million notes a minute, I could say just as much by not playing. It still feels a little weird, since I've been used to playing guitar like a competition where the winner is the person who can play the most notes the fastest. Which is why when I was 13 I measured how good someone was only by how fast they could go.
So here's what I did. I listened to songs where I thought the guitarist had particularly good phrasing and use of space, and then I learned the solos note for note. I got some backing tracks and I forced myself to slow down and not play licks. I also tried making myself pause whenever I felt it was getting out of control so I wouldn't overplay. The surprising thing is that I actually felt that it flowed better that way than when I wouldn't stop playing.

I'm still working on it, because I still feel like I'm just playing fast to play fast sometimes. But it's going to get better.

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Thanks for responding. Yes, solo hogging is something I am aware of. I'm not really of the competitive sort...well maybe just a little bit lol but I like to have fun while I'm playing. I think my frustration is what's causing me to mess up. 'Cause when I'm jamming with friends, I don't feel the same negative compulsive views in my playing, like I don't care if I make a mistake I just keep playing. But when I'm alone in my room playing with my looper and then recording the solo on top of it, I get a little upset 'cause it didn't turn out as smoothly as I hoped. It's kind of jumpy, the notes, and sometimes I hold a note too long or too short, that I have a really big issue with, 'cause sometimes I don't know if I should sustain the note, tremolo pick it, or let it go. I guess what I need to do is stop thinking about soloing and just do it lol the problem with that is is that it's like telling yourself to fall sleep on command instantly.

Oh, and I understand what you were saying with the whole words and sentences. It's like you want your guitar to speak, rather than stammer or mumble. Actually, if you think about it, phrasing really is an art in it of itself lol

Idk, I think it's because I hide my emotions a lot from people, so the only way to play I guess ideally would be to express them without fear. Well, I guess I'll just keep practicing

Dog the advice you received was all ready was top notch and right on point. I had seen BB King sum up phrasing in a similar way saying if you are having a conversation with someone and they are talking a mile a minute and not pausing you lose interest in what is being said. Knowing when to leave space and what not to play is as important as what to play. I would also work on dynamics if I were you try playing around with simple techniques like flipping between the neck and bridge pups during a solo also switch from pick to fingers or lower your volume knob for a bit then open it back up throw in some pinched harmonics instead of bending, use some sliding passages,hang on one note for a bit also alter your pick attack from hard to soft . All these things will help you out ,and always breath especially when you are going to cut loose on fast passage as most people tend to hold there breath a little when they are going for the gusto and sometimes it shows as it makes you tense up.Just work with these things and slowly things will fall into place. KEEP ON ROCKIN

reading your second post OP, and I mean this in the nicest way possible, but it sounds like you need to work on your rhythm skills a little bit. When you say you hold a note too long or rush a part. A good rhythm can make even a boring solo sound interesting, while no rhythm makes them sound like,.....er...Michael Angelo? Lol.

No offense meant, but you might be making the same mistakes when you jam with your friends, you just can't hear it (if you're not recording your jam sessions).

If you're not recording your jam sessions, try to do so next time; you might get some insight on what you are doing right and wrong--you might be surprised how a live person playing beside or behind you works better than a sterile looper.

Also, you hit on a good point (and I'm paraphrasing here), "if I'm having fun and I'm not nervous, it sounds better..." The only time we should let nerves effect our playing is as positive nervous energy that lets us dig deeper and pull "good" anguish into our playing.

Put yourself in a state of mind that says, "I'm here and I'm doing fine--I'm not playing to the great guitarist who might criticize me or to the gorgeous girl I'm trying to impress; I'm here to express my emotions--positive or negative emotions--and to touch the heart of the person who is on the same plane as me right now...whether it be my bandmates, the bartender or the old grandma that wandered into my show."

Once again, I don't mean to offend you--(the best suggestions can be taken as criticism or as a positive critique; please take this in a positive manner )--if you play like you type (little or no punctuation, paragraphs instead of sentences or succinct thoughts), perhaps you might try to play to the beat of a well-read poem or book on tape. A good orator or recitation of poem or prose is musical and lyrical in its reading.

It might sound crazy, but if a guitarist can solo like Garrison Keillor tells a story, I'm going to listen--whether the music is to my taste or not. (Garrison could read the phone book aloud and make it interesting).

PS--I am not into the whole "we are spirits in a material world" crap that Santana and other stoned-out faux-mystic blowhards rattle off , but they are right about one thing--if we play from a true, real emotion, it will show...whether the solo is simplistic or complex, it will "feel" right.

...and you have one more thing going for you that many other people don't--you realize your shortcomings and are willing to ask for help. That means you're in the right frame of mind to tackle your problem.

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Good Vibes To Y'all!



Screamin' Armadillos
Texas Roadhouse Music
Guitar/Slide Guitar/Harp/Vocals

...and yes, I know that was a Police song, not a Santana song, but if you've ever suffered through reading an interview with him, you know what I mean!

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Good Vibes To Y'all!



Screamin' Armadillos
Texas Roadhouse Music
Guitar/Slide Guitar/Harp/Vocals

BB.King used to say "the most important notes are the ones you don't play". Mike

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The blues ain't nothin but a good man feelin bad.

Lol, I type a lot of essays so I like to be more casual in my typing here 'cause I don't feel like being formal. Also, I know I make mistakes in my jam sessions:roll: Even if I play without making a mistake, the flow is missing. I didn't take anything you said offensively btw. Idk, to explain phrasing is like to explain math as an art or vice versa. But I'll figure it out, I just need to take the time to improve it. Also, I read this from an article a guitar teacher wrote. He said that if you look at horn players, saxophone, trumpet, etc. You'll notice they have very good phrasing. This is 'cause they actually have to breathe between notes. Today when I was in Spanish class and we were listening to Latino Music I noticed the trumpet being played and it sounded really good. If I implement that on guitar it would sound great. So I've decided that along with my study of guitar phrasing from guitar players that I'd also look into saxophone, trumpet, etc. players, which I already do since I listen to a lot of jazz like Chris Botti, Miles Davis, John Coltrane, etc. but this time actually learn what they're playing.

I think a common phrasing problem which I also had to deal with is that we sometimes concentrate a little too much on the 'now' part of the solo.

By that I mean, I had a tendency not to have a plan for what I wanted to 'say.' I thought too much about what I was playing in a given moment, without much or any thought of what I was going to play next.

I think to develop better phrasing you need to think more about the progression as a whole. What are the chord changes? How do you plan to move from chord to chord? What general feel do you want? Do you want to start slow and build to a climax. or do you want to impart some other feel?

Even the best improvisers (maybe i should say especially,) have a plan of attack, or a general idea of what they want to play over a part. If you have no plan or no idea at all of what you want to say, you will say nothing. As you become more experienced with this kind of thinking, you develop the skills to do it more spontaneously but that is because you will do this planning more quickly, and easily given time.

I would suggest, if you want to improve your phrasing maybe record a backing track similar to what you would play and actually sit down and try work out a roadmap for a solo. try crafting a solo, rather than just flying by the seat of your pants. work on these compositional skills, and you will probably move ahead toward finding the voice you want.

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I'm not an expert, but I play one on the internet.

I think you spotted your own problem when you said you sounded too much like you were trying to stay with the beat. It's the other way around. The closer you are to staying with the beat the smoother you will sound. You have to make a real effort to play with the beat. I didn't know how bad I was until I started playing with a drummer and other musicians.

So, as was mentioned above, get something that has backing tracks and play along. Or even simpler, get a metronome. Then concentrate on doing everything as closely as possible with the beat.

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Blaqdog you will be OK my man, as you were given a lot of really good advice now you just have to put it all together. I like what you said about listening to horn players as that is a very smart and advanced move so obviously you know what you are doing. Believe me even a lot of the best players till today have a problem when the red light goes on in the recording studio. Screamin Armadillo I am still LMFAO over the Santana crack. Carlos has been one of my favorite players for as long as I can remember but I know what you are talking about whenever he gives an interview he starts going into that mystical earth,moon,angels and the sun mumbo jumbo that makes you go what the hell does this have to do with anything.lol

LOL Santana I think is trying to describe the whole spiritual nature of guitar in a poetic/metaphorical way. Idk, but it's funny