Hey Ya'll,
In light of another post I just made, I just had another one of those weird late night thoughts that I felt like sharing.....

There has been this long, on-going, HIGHLY subjective debate that pops up from time to time in regards to the quality of a given instrument based on it's place of origin. Some folks are of the impression that a guitar...say a Strat for example, that is made in the USA is somehow and by default, superior to instruments made elsewhere and conversely there are those who are under the horribly misguided impression that anything made in China must be pure crap. Now I'm not going to rehash that particular debate in this thread but something fairly interesting...at least interesting to me...went through my mind tonight.

It occurs to me that in the next few hundred years or so...assuming human kind doesn't destroy itself or this planet we all live on...that some day, guitars could very well be made at places other than....errr...Earth. Think about it...it's only been between 200 and 300 years since Europeans began colonizing this continent and obviously they brought their "craftsmanship" with them. I can't find any specific family history but I understand that Leo Fender was a Greek-American...he was born in his family's barn in 1909, to a family of orange farmers. I can't seem to verify this, but I'd be willing to bet he was only 2nd or 3rd generation American. So it's at least possible that in another 200 to 300 years, perhaps people will be making guitars on the Moon or Mars. As such, let's picture this scenario...

The date is 2347 and a couple of guitarists are on interstellar comlink debating over "which guitars are better"...those made on Earth or those made at Fender's new manufacturing facility at Meridiani Planum on Mars (one of the places that the Mars Rover "Opportunity" explored back in the early 21st century). Of course there will probably be a few people...probably folks like myself...who will chime in about their Squier instruments that were made at the Lunar facility near Tranquility Base....after all, that plant has been there for close to 80 years now and those "Lunies" are really great craftsman (even though they're AI's) and they really know what they're doing! Facts, specifications and highly subjective attitudes will be passed back and forth. There will be heated discussions in regards to which woods are better...those naturally grown on Earth or those grown under the dome in an accelerated hydroponics facility. Perhaps the Martians will claim that a mineral unique to Mars makes for better pickup pole pieces than more "traditional" materials such as ceramic or alnico that the Earthers still typically use. Of course the Lunies believe that the low gravity environment of the moon allows machinery to run better (less friction) allowing for much more precise cutting of the necks and bodies. Ultimately everyone is going to walk away still believing "their guitar is best", LOL!!!!!!!!!


Hhhhmmmmm...kind of makes ya wonder a little don't it? I look forward to the day I see the words "Crafted on Earth" on the back of a Strat headstock .

Signing off from Bunker Hill...
Jim

WHOOOOOOOO THATS SOME GOOD $@!& YOU GOT THERE.

Just ask Martian about it...

MOM (made on Mars) vs MIA (made in the andromeda galaxy)

Gotta love the surreal nature of this thread. Is it mushroom season again Lom? We all know what pagan druids are partial to come september. (JK please dont be insulted).

As any mind that thinks it through will undoubtedly realize place of origin does not determine quality. Stipulations put on manufacturing plants by business managment does.

I'd be intrested to see now that japan and china are starting to move into the position as the 2 main world superpowers, how it affects the guitar world.

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No no and no

+1 nikininja

MIAG= Made in Andrmeda Galaxy

Our factories are currently running at full capacity. Unfortunately however, retailers are not accepting our new mechandise in UK at this time.

Perhaps you may be interested in our new line of Lunar lo-grav wound pup's, the moonglow really gives them that vintage sound...

An endorsement deal might not be out of the question...

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For setup help you could go here - http://www.fender.com/support
For a guitars build date, try here - http://www.guitardaterproject.org/

Well Arcaix i was actually hoping for a job (see upcoming thread) should you have somewhere with a breathable atmosphere for feeble humans. I'll work for banana's and be happy doing it as long as my family is spared during the upcoming invasion.

What i really dont agree with is those made on pluto guitars. Those temperatures cant do the wood any good can they?

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No no and no

I agree. They say "Made on Pluto" on the back, but they sound like Uranus.


Sorry, sorry...

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I really like all them "Aster" guitars. You know, like the Stratoc, Telec and Jazzm.

How come there are no UK made Fenders? Correct me if I am mistaken.

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2009 Fender Am Std Strat
2006 Highway 1 Strat
1 alien dog

Quite simple were far too expensive. What would the appeal be? The UK makes great amps that cost a fortune. Guitar builder tend to be a bit specialist too and cost accordingly. Mexico's labour costs are a big saving for FMIC. I dont know about Japan but the quality and even more so important consistency of their standards is a thing of wonder. The old saying that fender cant make two identical guitars (not really true anymore) has never applied to the Japanese factory.

All England could offer is disgruntled unhappy high cost labour. Judging by the car manufacturing industry thats still here, quality wouldnt be great either.

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No no and no

Made on Mars? Wow, good stuff! Hit it and pass it to the left man!

Well...I think that the Andromeda galaxy is reaching just a bit far...even for this thread! LOL!!! Until we Earthers find a way around that whole Einstein thing involving the speed of light (which I think is going to take much longer than a few hundred years) it's probably going to be a while before we can travel outside our own solar system. As I recall, it still takes about 75 years just to get to Vega and that's not really all that far away comparatively speaking.

That said, the Andromeda galaxy is moving closer to the Milky Way so who knows...in a million years or so.....



Dude...no offense taken at all! LOL!!! Although really...the time for dancing butt naked around the bon fire was Llamas back around the beginning of August.

BTW...how did you know I was Pagan? I don't typically advertise that too much around here. In fact I've been accused by a number of people of being a "natural" Druid due to my relationship with animals. Interesting that you should pick up on that .

That said....just for the record since a few other people suggested it, I would like to say that I wasn't smoking (or drinking, snorting, injecting...) anything at all last night. That all came out of a perfectly sober...albeit somewhat over-tired, if not somewhat warped mind! If anything, I'm probably considerably more rational when I am stoned! LOL!!!!! Normally I'm in bed by 10 or 11 at the lastest because my wife works for Uncle Sam and has to be up at 5 am...last night I was awake well past 2 am. When I get that tired, all sorts of weird sh*t starts going through my brain! LOL!!!

BTW...for those who may not know or may not have guessed...I'm also an amateur astronomer, so things like this typically go through my brain anyways .



I can acknowledge this. Honestly, there are excellent "craftsman" in all parts of the world. Obviously a sense of "nationalism" often comes in to play too...most people are proud (often to a fault) of their origins. With something like a mass-produced product such as guitars however, it really comes down to the manufacturer more than anything else. If a given company, regardless of where they are located...even should it be the Moon, Mars, Titan or elsewhere some day...if the manufacturer chooses to make "quality products", that's what they are going to make. Conversely (that's my word for the week btw...."conversely"), if a given company chooses to crank out a ton of junk at cheap prices, that's what's going to happen.

However I don't think that a lot of people take ALL of the factors in to consideration in regards to all of this. Many people were raised with the belief that "you get what you pay for" and quiet honestly, that's not always true any more. A factory worker in Mexico or China for example, will typically make considerably less money than an American (or British) worker...that's just the nature of their economy. However it in no way indicates the level of their craftsmanship or the pride they may take in their work compared with their American counterparts. They may in fact be quite grateful just to have a decent job with comparatively fair wages and as such, produce better products than a disgruntled worker here in the states. When a company has plants in both America, Mexico and China such as Fender does, certainly those labor prices (as well as other factors) are going to be reflected in the price of the product. Again though, it's not truly representative of the quality of that product.



I agree with this as well, not only in regards to guitars but manufacturing in general. Let's face it, "Made in the USA" simply doesn't mean what it once did. While there are certainly a few anally retentive souls out there who cling desperately to their nationalistic pride, in this day and age, more and more people are willing to be content with the alternatives if it saves them a few bucks. I certainly will not speak for others but personally when I'm buying something like a new television, a microwave, bath towels and most other things found around my house, I don't really care WHERE it was made. I'm sure there's still a few folks out there who won't shop at "Walmarts" because of this, but personally if I'm looking at bath towels and I see one that was "Made in China" for $5 and another that's "Made in USA" for $25, assuming the styles and quality are similar or the same, which do you think I'm really going to buy? You betcha...the MIC! Then I'll take that left over $20 and go have dinner or buy a couple of packs of guitar strings or something....hey....$20 is $20! When I buy something like a new TV, most of the time I don't even look at the brand right away...I'm looking to see which one has the best picture! Are there really any TVs or microwaves or gaming systems any more that are completely made in the USA strictly from American made parts? Goldstar vs. RCA...gee...tough decision there...what was the price tag again?

Perhaps because of this thing we call being musicians, peoples attitudes tend to differ a little...as I've said myself many times, a guitar is certainly a very personal thing. I think that a great many of us tend to have rather irrational relationships with our guitars...anyone out there ever have a wife or girlfriend who sees your guitar as "the other woman"? LOL!!! Perhaps some of us older folk also tend to remember some of the crap that came from overseas back in the 60's and 70's as well and that's still stuck up a lot of people's butts. Change isn't really a hard thing and it's certainly inevitable but accepting change often is.

Either way as you say China and Japan are certainly moving more towards a global dominance position. Personally I don't really see this as a bad thing...as I've said elsewhere and sort of insinuated in this thread, "one world, one people". If the US wants to compete then instead of whining about "cheap imports" perhaps we should do just that...compete. Regardless, for better or worse, the planet is moving more towards a global economy and things such as nationalistic isolation are moving the way of the dinosaurs. For my money however, if they can make it better and cheaper some where else...more power too them and that's what I will buy. In my mind, something like a guitar is NOT about how much money I spend on it (unless I'm getting it at a huge bargain that is! LOL!), it's about how good it sounds when I play it and how it makes me feel....and that doesn't typically mean an over-priced American made instrument.



Well...I said I wasn't going to rehash that debate, but I guess it was inevitable. That said, as new materials and new technologies progress, it will be interesting to see how guitars will evolve. For hundreds of years guitars didn't change much here on Earth, then a few folks like Leo Fender and Les Paul came around and the world of guitars hasn't been the same since. It would be really interesting to take a little peek in to the future and see how these things we call "guitars" will change as we move away from the cradle and out towards the stars...and how the attitudes change as well.

Peace,
Jim

PRS SE's are built in South Korea under rigorous quality control standards set by the company. Materials and labor costs factor into the price differentials between the MIK and MIA products. Notwithstanding, they're building a damn good guitar.

Unlike Fender, they are not competing with themselves in the CE, Custom, and McCarty models which are MIA. They are maintaining the level of quality and integrity of that product line.

There are too many Stratocasters at too many price points. I understand the marketing philosophy behind that fact, and it makes sense in it's own right, but it is still an issue in the moderately priced guitar market. Perhaps it would have been more appropriate to have everything by Fender, not MIA, marketed as Squier by Fender, leaving anything Fender, strictly MIA.

Doc

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"Another day in paradise!"

Hhmmm...that's a rather interesting notion. Marketing issues aside though I think it raises the question of would the brand still be considered the same brand outside of it's country of origin? I'm not sure there's really an easy answer to that either.

If a company such as Fender bought a company outside of the US...say the purchased "Ching Guitars" in China (a strictly hypothetical scenario here), and say they retained the staff of Ching guitars as well as all equipment and such and only implemented their own designs and specifications, then no...I don't think the guitars coming from that factory would really be "Fender" regardless of the quality. Certainly this would be the case where a given company "out sources" their work...in other words has other companies manufacture a given product to a given set of specifications.

On the other hand, if Fender were to buy the land and build their own factory supplied with their own manufacturing equipment (or equipment at least built to Fender's standards), train the employees to Fender's standards, etc., then yes...the guitars coming out of that factory would certainly be Fender all other things being reasonably equal...which is essentially the case with Fender down in Mexico.

This also raises the question "Are Fender and Squier really two separate entities?". If for instance...and I'll use purely hypothetical companies here (wink wink), "Joes Guitars and Musical Company" or JGMC, a major American producer of guitars and other musical instruments and equipment, decides to purchase "Bubba's Guitars", a smaller but highly specialized manufacturer of electric guitars with a reputation for quality. In this case, JGMC financially backs Bubba's Guitars and provides occasional technical support but otherwise leaves the company "alone" to produce the instruments in more or less the same fashion they always have...then Bubba's is still Bubbas. If however, JGMC swoops in, replaces equipment, staff, procedures, specifications etc., certainly Bubba's Guitars is no longer truly Bubba's Guitars...but are they really JGMC either?

In the case of Squier, I think that the brand/company "Squier" essentially does everything to Fender's exact specifications (barring issues of out sourcing). The company is owned by Fender, does everything Fender's way and loosely produces products similar (if not identical) to Fender. If this is indeed the case, then the use of the Squier name is nothing more really than a marketing ploy to establish some type of difference between the products in the actual Fender MIA and MIM lines and those produced under the Squier name. That being said, I wouldn't put it past the folks in JGMC's marketing department to perpetuate the image that some how the "Made in USA models" are in some way superior so as to justify the addition expense for such an instrument....but again, this is all purely hypothetical isn't it?

Those last sentiments being the case, then your comment would certainly make a bit of sense...put only the Fender name on the American made products. That said, like many "big companies", Fender seems to want to be "everything to everyone". They -know- there are people like myself who are simply NOT going to buy an American made instrument because of that higher price tag. If I had $1200 to spend on a brand new guitar, I would personally buy an MIM instead and upgrade the living daylights out of it or buy 2 or 3 Squier Standards and do the same (disregarding issues of used instruments of course). Ultimately Fender still gets the money either way (or most of it at least). They also certainly know that there are those who would never con decent to even looking at, let alone buying and playing an "inexpensive" instrument...it's just below them. As such, teh company would need to put a little...errr..."distance" if you will between the models of the various price ranges. Rather smart from a business stand point. There -are- people will may not be able to afford a Fender MIA Strat who but will never buy one of the "Chinese piece of crap Squiers" and will settle for an MIM just because it still bears the Fender name.

As such, their marketing strategy does seem to work rather well as is...the arrogant or greedy suckers with lots of dough to blow buy the top of the line MIA and/or Custom Shop models, the average "working musicians" buy the middle of the line MIM and top of the line Squier models and those just cutting their teeth buy the lower end Bullets, Affinities, "Strat Packs", Starcasters, etc.. Nothing like having your cake and eating it too! LOL!!!

Anyways, just rolling that thought around a bit.

L8r,
Jim

gee something about the sound of Guitar Center - Uranus, just seems right.

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2015 Epiphone Casino Goldtop
2011 Taylor 814ce
2009 EC Custom Shop Merc Blue
2008 Schecter ATX
1964 Epi Granada E444T
Fender Super Champ XD

If memory serves me, PRS SE's are built by a Korean manufacturer under very strict quality control from the U.S.

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"Another day in paradise!"