I have to replace te nut on my American Standard, isolated the cause of open G string buzz to the nut. Any thoughts on whether its OK to buy and install a pre-cut one from Fender or to buy a blank and have my local shop cut and install? Also - the ones Fender sells as "bone" is a real stretch by their marketing department - last time I checked melamine is a plastic, not bone. That having been said - pros and cons of using actual bone vs synthetic? Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thats like Graph Tech Tusq nuts are polymer! But there still not bad, a lot of times I use Macarta its easy to work looks like bone. I even have two Mammoth blanks here in my office. Did have four sold two who knows how much difference . There almost like the old Ivory ones.

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I think Fender refers to them not as bone but synthetic bone. It's great nut material and comes stock on many of their guitars. I'd recommend having your luthier do the actual cutting.

Theres absolutely nothing wrong with synthetic material. It makes very little difference to tone, only affecting open strings. I cut my own out of bone, its bloody tricky work. I'd go precut, but your going to pay to have your tech depth the slots either way.

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Pre-cut doesn't mean "just fit and it'll be fine", it'll still need adjusting for your guitar. So I'd find a luthier or guitar tech first and ask them what they recommend... they'll probably prefer to supply their own to your requirements. Unless you're going to do it yourself (do you have the right needle files?), then ask the experts...

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Specialist job I reckon and always worth it. A well cut nut in good material can make a lack-lustre sounding guitar ringout and sing..

I use a really good local tech and always have him use Tusque, esp on trem fitted guitars. The stuff is slippier than teflon.

First I'll address the "pre cut" versus "custom" issue. The thing to remember about a guitar nut is that it should be cut for the string gauge you are using. For example, if you buy a nut that was cut for ".009's" and you use ".010's" or ".011's", then you could (and probably will) run in to a problem with the strings binding in the string slots of the nut. The reverse of this is that if the nut is cut for .010's (let alone .011's or .012's) and you typically use .009's, you will probably end up with some slop resulting in more fret buzz. The sad thing here is that a lot of folks will slap heavier gauge strings on their instruments without any thought to this at all. They'll hear or read that "heavier strings sound better"...after all, SRV used .013's, right? The problem is that if you don't have the nut filed correctly it WILL effect the way the instrument plays and these people will end up with all kinds of problems, such as tuning, buzzing, action/setup, etc..

So with that in consideration, -if- you are buying an exact stock replacement nut and you use the same size strings the guitar came with, then yes...a pre cut should be fine (although you will certainly want to measure the nut height just to be sure!). If however you are using a different gauge string, then you will have to have the pre cut nut filed to fit your strings...which essentially equals "custom". Personally, like so many other's here, I'll buy a pre cut and then file it myself but it's also worth noting that if you've never done this before...it is rather meticulous work. If you're not absolutely sure about your skills and if you don't have the correct tools, then it's certainly worth having it done by a proper tech. If you have to go that far anyways, then the little bit extra you'll pay for having a nut cut specifically for your instrument isn't really that big a deal.

Now on the whole plastic vs. synthetic vs. bone issue, unless you have a specific reason for choosing one over the other, it's been my experience that it really doesn't make that big of a difference. I'm sure there are going to be some folks who are going to stomp their foot and say "YOU HAVE TO USE SUCH AND SUCH" but unless you have a reason to do this, it's not going to make a huge difference. For example, I can see where a person who is really "heavy handed" with the trem bar may choose a graphite nut...a good graphite nut will tend to have less friction than most other materials. Even here though, a properly filed nut with just a little bit of graphite applied works just as well. Beyond that, very simply I've played some excellent instruments that have used good ol' plastic (or other various synthetic variations)....nothing really wrong with it at all. I'm sure there are those who would argue with this, but simply the nut isn't going to effect things like "tone" all that much....not nearly as much as your pickups or trem block at least. There are some materials such as brass where there may be a noticeable difference but even here, it's not all that terribly significant. A good and proper setup (including a properly file nut regardless of the material) is going to have more effect on "playability" than ANY specific nut material ever will. In fact I have one of those LSR roller nuts installed on my '96 MIM Strat and honestly...looking back in that all mighty 20/20 hind site, it really wasn't worth it. If I knew then what I know now, I just would have of left the stock plastic nut on there.

I think that more than anything, for most folks having something like a "bone" nut is more about bragging rights than anything else. Having something like this somehow makes them feel as though their guitar is more "special" than other people's instruments ("My guitar has a bone nut...yours doesn't..."). In addition, I think most people who change something like this, tend to do it on the advice of others rather than any actual experience with the specific materials. "Well...so and so said that bone sounds better" and so on. Of course if someone famous such as Eric Clapton started using "space titanium" on all of his Strats, hordes of people would run out to buy the same if for no other reason than because "that's what Clapton uses". I think that's how fads get started! LOL!!! In the end though it's really more about personal preference more than anything. Some folks like maple fretboards, some like rosewood and others still prefer ebony. Some folks like single coils, some like humbuckers. Some folks like Strats, some like Teles, others like LPs and there's even others still who like instruments from Gretch, Danelectro and Rickenbacker. Same thing applies to nut material...some like bone, some like brass and others are just happy to have a guitar that plays well.

My advice would be simply this...if you're happy with the way your guitar sounds and plays...except for the buzzing of course...then get a stock replacement and have it filed properly. If you're NOT happy with the way your guitar sounds or plays then ask yourself "Is it really the nut or is it something else like the pickups, amp or even the person playing it?".

Alrighty...as always just my $.02 worth,

Jim

Whatever you choose stay away from brass. It sucks.

357 mag, any particular reason you don't like brass? I've never used it but I know a couple people that swear by them at least on Gibsons. They're misguided folks that haven't been bitten by the stratocaster bug! I would like to know your dislikes or problems because I was thinking about giving brass a try. I can see where it might bind up more if you use the trem a lot which I don't, but are there any other drawbacks.
Thanks,
filerj

Filerj

with guitar its just like clothes fashions keep coming round time and time again. Brass everything was popular for strats in the 70's. All the usuall wild claims of it improving tone and sustain were flying around. Till sometime in the early 80's when it suddenly became bad. The reason it was used was that it improved sustain. The reason it was ditched was that it hampered sustain.

Brass works well on tele saddles if you like that sound. I cant think of anything else except plectrums where its of any use. Certainly with a nut its of no use unless your playing open strings (exactly the same as bone). The minute you fret a note the nut is not in the notes makeup. The speaking length of the string is reduced from nut, to saddle to fret to saddle.

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Some great information about nuts I didn't know in this thread. Many thanks to all involved. Very informative.

Hey Ninja...
As I was reading your post, I had a curious thought pop in to my mind about all of this stuff. I certainly agree with you about things like brass being a "fad" and that as such, it will come and go and come round again. The thought that popped in to my head though is a bit more...shall we say, "scientific"?

Obviously you're right when you say that the moment you fret a string, the nut is no longer in play. Do a bar G chord for example and the nut has no effect. Now let's examine this for a moment...using that bar G chord as an example, you have two things that come in to play; the contact of the string with the fret and the contact between your finger and the string. Now obviously the contact between the string and the fret...two "hard" surfaces is the important thing here...of course that's what changes the length of the string and makes the individual note. However, one would think that the contact between the finger...a comparatively "soft" surface which will likely mute the string vibrations a little and the string would also be some kind of consideration.

Now clearly an open string tends to have a bit of a different sound than a fretted note. Let's say you play an open G and then play a G fretted at the 5th fret on D string...technically they are the same "pitch" but there is a slight difference in sound. In fact, if you fret the low E at the 10th fret, again it's the same pitch but it also sounds a bit different from the other two G's as the string is a thicker gauge. That said...and granted this is a bit subjective, it seems to me that the difference between the G fretted on the D string and the low E doesn't sound quiet as different as the open G. Are ya with me so far? Obviously an open A chord sounds a bit different from a bar A chord as well. It seems to me that the reason for this difference would be the nut.

As such, it would seem to me that the "ideal" nut material would be a material that took both of the characteristics of metal on metal as in the string and the fret and skin on metal both in to mind...yes/no? One would think that this would provide a more consistent sound all the way down the neck including open strings.

Of course...I have no idea what that ideal material would be! LOL!!! If someone figures it out though who knows...maybe it will be the next fad!


Don't mind me...over-tired, over-stressed and I just have weird thoughts rattling around in my brain. If that didn't make sense to anyone, don't sweat it...I'm not sure it really made sense to me.

L8r,
Jim

Ah Lomitus you address here a common problem with music thats a stark reality with guitar as its a modular instrument as opposed to a linear instrument such as a piano. You get the same notes within a certain octave appearing at various points over the neck but never on the same string. Take E in the 2nd octave (8va) it appears at the 12th, 7th and 2nd frets. All strings have a different thickness and are tuned to a different tension resulting in a different timbre to the note. Couple this with the fact that the 4th/5th intervals along a guitar string are a rough approximation at best of their target notes. Guitar frets further complicate this. When you fret a note you stretch the string and make it sharper still. Its one reason why a well cut nut is of paramount importance, is to allieviate this problem somewhat. A high cut nut is great for slide where you dont fret but will send every note along the string sharp until your well up the fretboard. You'll notice it predominantly around frets 1-5 but trust me it happens well up to 9/10. Now a well cut nut still sends strings sharp but by a lesser degree because you still stretch the string, just not as much as on a high cut nut.

After a good few months with my head in my nether regions and pondering equal temperament, true temperament, guitar fretboards, compensated nuts and offsets. I have reached the conclusion that I should just play the thing. Its a minefield of a area, solve one problem create another. Your better of to not go down that rabbithole. The guy who got me worrying about my ear and perfect pitch some 18 years ago, has a tremendous ear. Not only can he hear pitch, he can hear timbre too. He can literaly listen to something and tell you where its played as well as the notes. He explained the whole perfect pitch misnomer to me after he'd spent so many years persuing it. You cant have perfect pitch for imperfect music played on imperfect instruments. You may hear notes and like him you may hear string diffference on something recorded 30 years ago. You will never hear intervals perfectly though as the intervals we use are not right.

I believe your hearing that difference in pitch between the same notes as well as the string timbre. Tune D at the 10th fret of the E string to the 5th fret of the A string. Get em bang on then check the 5th fret of the E to the open A. Thats one of the better examples but still shows up the fretboard problems well enough.

On nut slot widths, in my experience everyone cuts nuts a few sizes too big. I dont think i've ever seen a .009 nut file anywhere. My smallest is .012 and get no problems on the high E or B strings. I believe this is because the angle of the slot (back of the slot lower than front) creates a clean break point at the front of the slot. Rather than aiming to have the sides of the slot grip the nut.

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Nikininja,
Thanks for the reply to my question. I take it since I like the sound of my strat now, when I need a new nut just replace it with the same.
Thanks,
filerj

Its just common sense to see that it cant change the tone when its not a factor on the strings talk length. (i.e when you fret a note).
You may adore the sound though so dont dismiss it. Lots of people (myself included) swear by brass tele saddles. Stainless steel will just not do for my tele saddles. Ok its a different guitar probably used for very different things than you would use it for. But then again were very different players so its worth trying out. Tell the tech you want your old nut back undamaged (its more than possible to remove without breaking). If you dont like it put the old one back in. It should slot straight in, unless the tech widens the neck slot instead of the nut (which they should never ever do).

The one good thing about brass is that it should last a lot longer than bone or any form of plastic.

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