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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:44 am
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albala wrote:
I want to rub my hand over that neck / body joint and think naughty thoughts.

That thing looks sweet...is it mahogany with maple?


Fap endeavors are not allowed here...this is after all a PG rated Forum.... :wink: :lol: :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:34 am
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albala wrote:
I want to rub my hand over that neck / body joint and think naughty thoughts.

That thing looks sweet...is it mahogany with maple?

Mahogany for sure with a maple cap. I want to do the same thing BTW.....

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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:35 am
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Does it come in a blue finish as well?


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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:46 am
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cnsky54 wrote:
Does it come in a blue finish as well?

I am not sure. I have seen a few like this in Natural though. Now the Ultra came ina cool Blue Burst with maple caps. Very nice!

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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 2:33 pm
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Xhefri wrote:
:lol: Topscore, you just posted 4 in a row! :shock: Ya, I agree, there is no reason for people to get mean spirited. But like I mentioned, people will post, text, or email things they would never say to a person's face...at least most of the time. Most of the time people on here are civil....unless they own Firestorm guitars..... Oh, it looks like your Ultra is now bye bye!


I see what you mean. Xhefri. I get on, answer/respond to a bunch of posts all over the forum, then get off. Nothing to do about four in a row. Just happens. Gotta go.

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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:33 pm
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Hi, Fans of the Fender Plus, Plus Deluxe & Plus Ultra.

I just sold my 1990 Fender Plus Ultra.

The buyer is complaining about the last two tuners for the "B" & "E" strings.
He says the chrome is worn off and maybe more can be peeled off.
The seller says he could be wrong, but that it is plastic under the chrome!!!

This does not seem like quality Fender workmanship for a 22 year old guitar
otherwise in great condition.

In my photos below, you can see some differences in the reflections.
I did not really notice or think about it at all.

Does anyone know what is under the chrome on Fender tuners?
Is it plastic? The seller felt there should be metal under the chrome.
Please let me know what you've experienced. Thank you. Toppscore :)

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:03 am
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Toppscore wrote:
Hi, Fans of the Fender Plus, Plus Deluxe & Plus Ultra.

I just sold my 1990 Fender Plus Ultra.

The buyer is complaining about the last two tuners for the "B" & "E" strings.
He says the chrome is worn off and maybe more can be peeled off.
The seller says he could be wrong, but that it is plastic under the chrome!!!

This does not seem like quality Fender workmanship for a 22 year old guitar
otherwise in great condition.

In my photos below, you can see some differences in the reflections.
I did not really notice or think about it at all.

Does anyone know what is under the chrome on Fender tuners?
Is it plastic? The seller felt there should be metal under the chrome.
Please let me know what you've experienced. Thank you. Toppscore :)

Image

Image



It's kind of a surprise that the chrome would be peeling on Sperzel tuners - I've never heard of that happening. I wouldn't call it a Fender issue; it looks like it's a Sperzel issue. I've had a couple of guitars over the years with Sperzels (a Suhr and a Tyler) and the buttons on them seemed to be metal, but anything is possible. The Suhr even had that same type of chrome Sperzels as your Ultra.

Those chrome Sperzels Fender used on the Ultra which are pretty rare during that time period - the vast majority of Sperzels made before the mid-1990s were satin finished. Interesting that you're Ultra had the Sperzels - I've only seen a few Ultras with them including the blueburst one I was going to buy from Akron Music back in 1992 - I remember the Sperzels because it was also the first Ultra I saw with them instead of the chrome Fender/Schallers.

Xhefri's the guy to verify this, but if I'm remembering correctly Fender started out using Sperzels on the first Strat Pluses in 1987, but switched over to the Fender/Schallers during that first 12-18 months of Plus and Plus Deluxe production - I wouldn't think it would be a quality issue with Sperzel, more that Schaller could ship more tuners to Fender for a lower cost. That being said, while Fender mostly used the Fender/Schallers they would fill in with Sperzels whenever they were out of Fender/Schallers (sometimes Schaller would be behind in delivering shipments). It could be that the early Beck Signatures were spec'ed to have Sperzels as well.


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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:58 am
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I'm a bit confused Mr Toppscore - you went through all the fuss and bother of chasing down just the right Ultra to buy and now you have sold it?? Did you find a better one, or are your other guitars more the sound you were looking for?


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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:20 am
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John C wrote:
Those chrome Sperzels Fender used on the Ultra which are pretty rare during that time period - the vast majority of Sperzels made before the mid-1990s were satin finished. Interesting that you're Ultra had the Sperzels - I've only seen a few Ultras with them including the blueburst one I was going to buy from Akron Music back in 1992 - I remember the Sperzels because it was also the first Ultra I saw with them instead of the chrome Fender/Schallers.

Xhefri's the guy to verify this, but if I'm remembering correctly Fender started out using Sperzels on the first Strat Pluses in 1987, but switched over to the Fender/Schallers during that first 12-18 months of Plus and Plus Deluxe production.

Yes - the old Schaller verses Sperzil issue. It is really confusing and part of it could be explained (do I dare say this???) by the "bin theory"! The first Plus' came with Sperzil and the later shifted over to Schaller. BUT I have seen early 88 and late 87s Plus with Schaller as well. :shock: Then each time Fender came out with the next upgraded model, such as the Deluxe Strat Plus after the standard Strat Plus model had been selling for almost 2 years and using Schaller tuners, some of DX Plus' came out with Sperzil tuners for s short time! :shock: We see this again with the Ultra guitars. A number of early 1990 Ultras shipped with Chrome plated Sperzil tuners, but all in a very short time moved over to Schaller. Was Fender just trying to use up old stock with each new lease of a product line??? Got me. They seemed to mix and match those first few years.

Toppscore wrote:
Hi, Fans of the Fender Plus, Plus Deluxe & Plus Ultra. I just sold my 1990 Fender Plus Ultra.

I was wondering too, why you sold this guitar when you have quite a number of other ones? What made you decide to sell that one verses one of your other ones. I love these guitars and they are on the bottom of my cut list! :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:19 am
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cnsky54 wrote:
I'm a bit confused Mr Toppscore - you went through all the fuss and bother of chasing down just the right Ultra to buy and now you have sold it?? Did you find a better one, or are your other guitars more the sound you were looking for?


Thanks. Different issue.
Toppscore.

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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:26 am
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John C wrote:
It's kind of a surprise that the chrome would be peeling on Sperzel tuners - I've never heard of that happening. I wouldn't call it a Fender issue; it looks like it's a Sperzel issue. I've had a couple of guitars over the years with Sperzels (a Suhr and a Tyler) and the buttons on them seemed to be metal, but anything is possible. The Suhr even had that same type of chrome Sperzels as your Ultra.

Those chrome Sperzels Fender used on the Ultra which are pretty rare during that time period - the vast majority of Sperzels made before the mid-1990s were satin finished. Interesting that you're Ultra had the Sperzels - I've only seen a few Ultras with them including the blueburst one I was going to buy from Akron Music back in 1992 - I remember the Sperzels because it was also the first Ultra I saw with them instead of the chrome Fender/Schallers.

Xhefri's the guy to verify this, but if I'm remembering correctly Fender started out using Sperzels on the first Strat Pluses in 1987, but switched over to the Fender/Schallers during that first 12-18 months of Plus and Plus Deluxe production - I wouldn't think it would be a quality issue with Sperzel, more that Schaller could ship more tuners to Fender for a lower cost. That being said, while Fender mostly used the Fender/Schallers they would fill in with Sperzels whenever they were out of Fender/Schallers (sometimes Schaller would be behind in delivering shipments). It could be that the early Beck Signatures were spec'ed to have Sperzels as well.


Thanks, John C. I feel better, and the pictures were published.
But, it is a shame to even have to think about it at all.
It is what it is. I meet the new owner Thursday at my guitar tech's
to go over that and a setup. So, any ammo would be good.

Sperzel is easy for you to see in the pictures.
I do not think the guy will want to change all six,
I do not feel responsible, but, if I know more, it will be helpful.
Things do wear on guitars.

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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:39 am
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Xhefri wrote:
Yes - the old Schaller verses Sperzil issue. It is really confusing and part of it could be explained (do I dare say this???) by the "bin theory"! The first Plus' came with Sperzil and the later shifted over to Schaller. BUT I have seen early 88 and late 87s Plus with Schaller as well. :shock: Then each time Fender came out with the next upgraded model, such as the Deluxe Strat Plus after the standard Strat Plus model had been selling for almost 2 years and using Schaller tuners, some of DX Plus' came out with Sperzil tuners for s short time! :shock: We see this again with the Ultra guitars. A number of early 1990 Ultras shipped with Chrome plated Sperzil tuners, but all in a very short time moved over to Schaller. Was Fender just trying to use up old stock with each new lease of a product line??? Got me. They seemed to mix and match those first few years.


In this case I would guess that it isn't the "parts bin theory" and more that small orders of Sperzels were used to fill in whenever they ran out of Fender/Schallers so they could meet production demands. More like "Oh crap, those 'Plus series' guitars are really selling well, we have 300 that have to be shipped by the end of the month and we only have 100 sets of locking Fender/Schaller tuners left and Schaller can't fill the our next order until three months from now" so they would just do a minimum order of Sperzels to fill the gap until their shipment arrives from Schaller.


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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:49 am
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John C wrote:
Xhefri wrote:
Yes - the old Schaller verses Sperzil issue. It is really confusing and part of it could be explained (do I dare say this???) by the "bin theory"! The first Plus' came with Sperzil and the later shifted over to Schaller. BUT I have seen early 88 and late 87s Plus with Schaller as well. :shock: Then each time Fender came out with the next upgraded model, such as the Deluxe Strat Plus after the standard Strat Plus model had been selling for almost 2 years and using Schaller tuners, some of DX Plus' came out with Sperzil tuners for s short time! :shock: We see this again with the Ultra guitars. A number of early 1990 Ultras shipped with Chrome plated Sperzil tuners, but all in a very short time moved over to Schaller. Was Fender just trying to use up old stock with each new lease of a product line??? Got me. They seemed to mix and match those first few years.


In this case I would guess that it isn't the "parts bin theory" and more that small orders of Sperzels were used to fill in whenever they ran out of Fender/Schallers so they could meet production demands. More like "Oh crap, those 'Plus series' guitars are really selling well, we're already out of locking Fender/Schaller tuners, Schaller can't fill the our next order for three months, and we have 200 we have to get out by the end of the month" so they would just do a minimum order of Sperzels to fill the gap until their shipment arrives from Schaller.



I imagine so.
Do you feel a set of six era correct Schallers are a good choice?
Or another set of Sperzels?
Did Schaller or Sperzel change their designs from year to year?
If, down the road the buyer wanted to put on 1992 Schallers or Sperzels
on the 1990 guitar, are the new tuners different or the same?
Thanks again, Toppscore :)

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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:55 am
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Toppscore wrote:
John C wrote:
Xhefri wrote:
Yes - the old Schaller verses Sperzil issue. It is really confusing and part of it could be explained (do I dare say this???) by the "bin theory"! The first Plus' came with Sperzil and the later shifted over to Schaller. BUT I have seen early 88 and late 87s Plus with Schaller as well. :shock: Then each time Fender came out with the next upgraded model, such as the Deluxe Strat Plus after the standard Strat Plus model had been selling for almost 2 years and using Schaller tuners, some of DX Plus' came out with Sperzil tuners for s short time! :shock: We see this again with the Ultra guitars. A number of early 1990 Ultras shipped with Chrome plated Sperzil tuners, but all in a very short time moved over to Schaller. Was Fender just trying to use up old stock with each new lease of a product line??? Got me. They seemed to mix and match those first few years.


In this case I would guess that it isn't the "parts bin theory" and more that small orders of Sperzels were used to fill in whenever they ran out of Fender/Schallers so they could meet production demands. More like "Oh crap, those 'Plus series' guitars are really selling well, we're already out of locking Fender/Schaller tuners, Schaller can't fill the our next order for three months, and we have 200 we have to get out by the end of the month" so they would just do a minimum order of Sperzels to fill the gap until their shipment arrives from Schaller.



I imagine so.
Do you feel a set of six era correct Schallers are a good choice?
Or another set of Sperzels?
Did Schaller or Sperzel change their designs from year to year?
If, down the road the buyer wanted to put on 1992 Schallers or Sperzels
on the 1990 guitar, are the new tuners different or the same?
Thanks again, Toppscore :)


You would need to pull one tuner and see the guide pin holes drilled on the headstock - Fender/Schaller's use 2 guide pins (on the corners of the tuner body) while Sperzels use one guide pin in the center of the tuner body. If the headstock is only drilled for Sperzels, then a replacement set of Sperzels is the best.

If it happens to have 3 holes drilled (2 for the Fender/Schaller and 1 for the Sperzel) then I would go with the Fender/Schallers just because I've always thought they were a bit smoother - I think the Schallers are 14:1 ratio and the Sperzels are 12:1 ratio. Of course for a guitar of this era I wouldn't use the current Fender locking tuners with the "F" on the knob - they are also great tuners (I have them on my Select Tele) but they would be out of place on a 1990 guitar.


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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:30 am
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I would just offer the buyer a little money back and let him get what he wants, can probably pick up sperzels for less than $10 for one on Ebay.


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