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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:50 pm
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John C wrote:
Marcelive wrote:
@John C & @Xhefri

Thx so much! I was totally incorrect about the controls. Yes I have 2 knobs that say Volume and one Tone. Odd. They're all the same looking. One doesn't look newer.

It strikes me a bit odd as to why somebody would add this strat plus neck and pickups to a hard tail body in the first place. Great sustain and stays even more in tune with locking tuner heads?!

I'm a bit sad now not having an original guitar though... but at least we got to the bottom of it.

Last thing I wanted to ask about the body. How can I be sure this is from a US standard. Only by the date, any other means? I don't even know what wood this is.

Thanks again for all your help!


It was probably owned by someone who loved the pickups and the neck but was tired of having the trem so they put their favorites on the hard tail body.

The body would be an American Standard or Strat Plus - those were the only models that had that swimming pool route but didn't have figured wood veneers (ash for the Strat Plus Deluxe and figured maple for the Strat Ultra). I think it would likely be an alder body.


+1 I am thinking alder too. American for sure.

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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:24 am
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Albala:

I believe that one is Japanese.


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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:42 am
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albala wrote:
davidwhitson wrote:
Albala:

I believe that one is Japanese.


I've seen reports that it's MIJ with MIA parts. The neck plate says USA. I didn't know if they did a contoured neck on MIJs.

There is a lot of confusion about F-series strats.


I'm not sure we'll ever know what really went on with that particular series of guitars. Sure the neck plate says USA, but that same neck plate is found on guitars clearly marked "Made in Japan" like the first-year HM Strats and the 1991-1994-ish HRR Strats - in fact, the contoured heel was first found on MIJs and took a while to make it over to USA guitars (I believe the Sambora was the first USA to have the contoured heel and they came out in 1992; the first HMs came out in 1988). In all honesty I never knew that model also had the swimming pool route under the pickguard; thanks for showing the body.

There are two schools of thought on these "mystery" Fenders:

1. They were MIJ with several USA parts shipped over (like the neck plates, DiMarzio pickups, and the Kahler trems) but instead of having "Made In Japan" anywhere under the finish they had a simple sticker with the "Made In Japan" on them. Those stickers would either fall off or were removed along the way.

2. They were assembled in the USA from finished bodies and necks sourced from Fender Japan - and the necks could have been either pre-drilled for the Gotoh tuners or pre-loaded with the Gotoh tuners.

I tend to believe in theory #1 - the "Made in Japan" was on a sticker that either fell off or was removed early on. Fender wasn't the only company doing that in that time frame - when Grover Jackson took on business partners who moved the "Charvel" name over to an MIJ line in the middle 1980s their MIJ bolt-ons had a neck plate that clearly showed an address in Fort Worth, Texas and only had a "Made in Japan" sticker. Eventually they stopped using neck plates with any address on them but still never put the "Made in Japan" under the finish in that era.

It also wasn't unusual for Japanese manufacturers to source parts from USA companies like Kahler - USA-built Kahlers were found on Aria Pro IIs and several other makes, and DiMarzio pickups could be found on several brands as well.


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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:13 pm
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albala wrote:
.One day I'd like to see an Ultra added to my collection too.



Will this be a Plus Ultra without Lace Sensor pickups, as well?
Toppscore 8)

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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:15 pm
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Marcelive wrote:
I took off my neck today to find if this body matches my strat plus neck and found a piece of paper stuck over almost the entire area. Is this normal? It took some of the pink Date off and they stamped the year in the black paint job so you cannot see it. Then the Black dated stamp is under the remains of the sticker type paper which is not coming off easily. The main part just came off. Will post pics next under the pickguard. I'm just going out for dinner quick!


Man. What a gip.
Take that guitar back and get a refund. Right away, before
your extend insurance expires!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Toppscore 8)

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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:21 pm
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Marcelive wrote:
@John C & @XhefriThx so much! I was totally incorrect about the controls. Yes I have 2 knobs that say Volume and one Tone. Odd. They're all the same looking. One doesn't look newer.
It strikes me a bit odd as to why somebody would add this strat plus neck and pickups to a hard tail body in the first place. Great sustain and stays even more in tune with locking tuner heads?!
I'm a bit sad now not having an original guitar though... but at least we got to the bottom of it.
Last thing I wanted to ask about the body. How can I be sure this is from a US standard. Only by the date, any other means? I don't even know what wood this is.
Thanks again for all your help!



You've got a great guitar!!! It could not be this way from the factory.
Partscasters are way too cool. Did you pay for an original or does it matter?
Now you cn modify it without remorse. Enjoy, play and experiment :shock:

Toppscore :)

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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:22 pm
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Monalst wrote:
Will trade one tone knob for a volume knob lol!..My guitar has 3 tone knobs..


Did you have your contacts in when you purchased your pet baby? :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:30 pm
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albala wrote:
John C wrote:
I've seen reports that it's MIJ with MIA parts. The neck plate says USA. I didn't know if they did a contoured neck on MIJs.
There is a lot of confusion about F-series strats.

I'm not sure we'll ever know what really went on with that particular series of guitars...
thanks for sharing your wisdom. I've pretty much heard both of those tales. I tend to fall on the #1 side, MIJ with some MIA parts.
I know these things are rare. I've had trouble bonding with the kahler, had a whole rebuild planned with a warmoth neck and two Dimarzio hunbuckers, even had an offer to buy it. About a week ago, I decided to keep it, restore it to original appearance but with upgraded pups. It's really beautiful, like the nicest Ultra, but it has that atrocious trem-cave. I'll block the trem.
I shared it to show the SP route. ...this place is amazing for guitar-freaks like myself.



What is rare? Not your pictured Strat, right?
It is a partscaster, right?

So, what are you referring to as "rare"?

Thanks for updating me. Toppscore :)

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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:15 pm
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albala wrote:
albala wrote:
John C wrote:
I've seen reports that it's MIJ with MIA parts. The neck plate says USA. I didn't know if they did a contoured neck on MIJs.
There is a lot of confusion about F-series strats.

I'm not sure we'll ever know what really went on with that particular series of guitars...
thanks for sharing your wisdom. I've pretty much heard both of those tales. I tend to fall on the #1 side, MIJ with some MIA parts.
I know these things are rare. I've had trouble bonding with the kahler, had a whole rebuild planned with a warmoth neck and two Dimarzio hunbuckers, even had an offer to buy it. About a week ago, I decided to keep it, restore it to original appearance but with upgraded pups. It's really beautiful, like the nicest Ultra, but it has that atrocious trem-cave. I'll block the trem.
I shared it to show the SP route. ...this place is amazing for guitar-freaks like myself.
I'm referring to the F-series contemporary with the kahler trem and the maple veneer top. I don't know how rare it is numbers-wise but I haven't found a lot of info on them and there aren't any for sale anywhere. I don't even know what Fender officially called it.
It's in parts now but I'm going to put it all back together to original appearance with the original neck, body, trem, and pickguard. It's too beautiful to sell.
...yes, I'm upgrading the pickups too



Does anyone know when, what years and which models Fender used Kahler products,
and which components Fender used of Kahlers?

I have seen a few Strats for sale with Kahler components and did not
know much about them.

Thanks for any and all info. Toppscore 8)

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Last edited by Toppscore on Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:38 am
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Toppscore wrote:


Does anyone know when, what years and which models Fender used Kahler products,
and which components Fender used of Kahlers?

I have seen a few Strats for sales with Kahler components and did not
know much about them.

Thanks for any and all info. Toppscore 8)


I believe the Kahler era would run roughly from 1987 through 1991:

It don't know when it happened, but sometime in 1987 Fender changed the trem unit on the MIJ Contemporary Standards from the Schaller-built Fender System 1 trem to the Kahler Traditional ( 2-post non-locking trem with fine tuners and roller saddles - similar in concept but a different design from the System 1).

The MIJ HM Strats came out in 1988 using the Kahler Spyder trem. The Spyder was designed by Kahler but utilized the double-locking clamps similar to the Floyd Rose design so they carried the words "Licesned under Floyd Rose Patents" on them. Sometime in either this year or in 1989 the Contemporary Standard model switched from the Kahler Traditional to the Kahler Spyder.

I don't know when they came out, but the Fender Prodigy model of circa 1988-1990 (I can't remember if those were USA or made somewhere else) also had the option of having the Kahler Sypder trem or a regular Fender vintage-style trem.

I believe that model that albala has with the Kahler Spyder was only made for about a year - that would be circa 1990.

The only other Fender I can think of off the top of my head that used a Kahler trem were the HRR Strats that came out in mid-1991. They used the Kahler Steeler bridge which was virtually identical to the Schaller-built "Original Floyd Rose" model trems but built by Kahler and made from stainless steel (with some minor changes like the fine tuners were a bit further back on the trem).

By the end of 1991 Kramer, which had owned distribution of the Floyd Rose trems, went out of business and Fender acquired the Floyd Rose distribution rights. At that point in time Fender dropped the Kahler bridges and moved the models still in production (which I believe were only the HM Strats and the HRR Strats) over to the "Original Floyd Rose" bridge, and they introduced a couple of new models in the HM line (the HM 2 and the HM Ultra) that used the "Floyd Rose Pro" bridge. Also Fender brought out the Heartfield guitars, some of their lines (the Talons and one of the Elans) used Floyd Rose bridges.


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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:09 am
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John C wrote:
Toppscore wrote:
Does anyone know when, what years and which models Fender used Kahler products,
and which components Fender used of Kahlers?
I've seen a few Strats for sales with Kahler components and did not know much about them.
Thanks for any and all info. Toppscore 8)

The MIJ HM Strats came out in 1988 using the Kahler Spyder trem. The Spyder was designed by Kahler but utilized the double-locking clamps similar to the Floyd Rose design so they carried the words "Licesned under Floyd Rose Patents" on them. Sometime in either this year or in 1989 the Contemporary Standard model switched from the Kahler Traditional to the Kahler Spyder.


Thanks, John C. I have seen that statement.
Would it be fair to say tha any bridge tremolo system
declaring that statement is a Kahler product?



Also, I did a quick review on the the HRR Hot Rod Stratocaster,
the Lonestar Stratocaster and the HM Heavy Metal Stratcocaster.

I think HRR = HotRodRose
HM has 24 Frets
All three are HSS with different pickups.

Read this:
"After the sale of Fender from CBS to the group headed by the late Bill Schultz, management began to restructure Fender to make it profitable again. In the late eighties, Fender introduced two new lines of guitars, called the HM (Heavy Metal) and the HRR (no literal translation, but the catalog indicates H stands for “history,” and my best guess is the Rs stand for “Floyd Rose” and “Hot Rodded”).These new, hot-rodded Strats featured a DiMarzio humbucker with coil tapping abilities in the bridge position. After the initial release, Fender took notice that players wanted more “beefed-up” pickups in their guitars, and more Strats became available with new, hot-rodded pickup configurations. Fender offered the Japanese-built HRR ‘50s Strat (maple fingerboard) and the HRR ‘60s Strat (rosewood fingerboard) until 1995. In 1993, Fender introduced the Richie Sambora Signature Stratocaster that featured a DiMarzio humbucker pickup as well.

In 1996, Fender introduced the Lone Star Strat, which would become the first guitar in the Hot Rodded Series that was announced in 1998. Although this type of guitar had been offered by Fender since the late eighties, this was the first series actually bearing the Hot Rodded name. The Lone Star Strat featured two Texas Special single coils and one Seymour Duncan Pearly Gates Plus humbucker pickup. Other models introduced in 1998 were the Roadhouse Strat (three Texas Special single coil pickups), and the Big Apple Strat (two Seymour Duncan Pearly Gates Plus humbucker pickups). All three models retailed for around $1200. These guitars were produced through 2000, and in 2001 the American Strat Texas Special models were introduced. The Lone Star, Roadhouse, and Big Apple were basically all renamed the American Strat Texas Special, American Fat Strat Texas Special, and the American Double Fat Strat, respectively."


Good stuff.
Now, I wanna be like John C and learn these interesting facts,
own them all and do ABC testing & comparisons :shock: - hahaha


Topppscore 8)

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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:12 am
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albala wrote:
I think I have some guitar catalogs from the 80's. I'll scan through them for some details.
I also have Guitar World, GP, and GFTPM from the 80's and early 90's.
I should see if there are any reviews. yay homework


Thanks, Albala. Premier 2/2009:

"There is no question that players want options when it comes to guitars. Hot-rodding a guitar is certainly an easy way to expand a player’s tone and sound, which has made it a very popular option. Fender, along with several other manufacturers, continues to experiment with pickup configurations, manufacturers, and layouts."

Zachary R. Fjestad
is the author of the Blue Book of Acoustic Guitars, Blue Book of Electric Guitars, and the Blue Book of Guitar Amplifiers. Questions can be submitted to: Blue Book Publications Attn: Guitar Trash or Treasure 8009 34th Ave. S. Ste #175 Minneapolis, MN 55425 800-877-4867
bluebookinc.com
guitars@bluebookinc.com

Read more: http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/I ... z23MBC1hyG

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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:33 pm
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Toppscore wrote:
John C wrote:
Toppscore wrote:
Does anyone know when, what years and which models Fender used Kahler products,
and which components Fender used of Kahlers?
I've seen a few Strats for sales with Kahler components and did not know much about them.
Thanks for any and all info. Toppscore 8)

The MIJ HM Strats came out in 1988 using the Kahler Spyder trem. The Spyder was designed by Kahler but utilized the double-locking clamps similar to the Floyd Rose design so they carried the words "Licesned under Floyd Rose Patents" on them. Sometime in either this year or in 1989 the Contemporary Standard model switched from the Kahler Traditional to the Kahler Spyder.


Thanks, John C. I have seen that statement.
Would it be fair to say tha any bridge tremolo system
declaring that statement is a Kahler product?



Also, I did a quick review on the the HRR Hot Rod Stratocaster,
the Lonestar Stratocaster and the HM Heavy Metal Stratcocaster.

I think HRR = HotRodRose
HM has 24 Frets
All three are HSS with different pickups.

Read this:
"After the sale of Fender from CBS to the group headed by the late Bill Schultz, management began to restructure Fender to make it profitable again. In the late eighties, Fender introduced two new lines of guitars, called the HM (Heavy Metal) and the HRR (no literal translation, but the catalog indicates H stands for “history,” and my best guess is the Rs stand for “Floyd Rose” and “Hot Rodded”).These new, hot-rodded Strats featured a DiMarzio humbucker with coil tapping abilities in the bridge position. After the initial release, Fender took notice that players wanted more “beefed-up” pickups in their guitars, and more Strats became available with new, hot-rodded pickup configurations. Fender offered the Japanese-built HRR ‘50s Strat (maple fingerboard) and the HRR ‘60s Strat (rosewood fingerboard) until 1995. In 1993, Fender introduced the Richie Sambora Signature Stratocaster that featured a DiMarzio humbucker pickup as well.

In 1996, Fender introduced the Lone Star Strat, which would become the first guitar in the Hot Rodded Series that was announced in 1998. Although this type of guitar had been offered by Fender since the late eighties, this was the first series actually bearing the Hot Rodded name. The Lone Star Strat featured two Texas Special single coils and one Seymour Duncan Pearly Gates Plus humbucker pickup. Other models introduced in 1998 were the Roadhouse Strat (three Texas Special single coil pickups), and the Big Apple Strat (two Seymour Duncan Pearly Gates Plus humbucker pickups). All three models retailed for around $1200. These guitars were produced through 2000, and in 2001 the American Strat Texas Special models were introduced. The Lone Star, Roadhouse, and Big Apple were basically all renamed the American Strat Texas Special, American Fat Strat Texas Special, and the American Double Fat Strat, respectively."


Good stuff.
Now, I wanna be like John C and learn these interesting facts,
own them all and do ABC testing & comparisons :shock: - hahaha


Topppscore 8)


Toppscore - Floyd Rose got very agressive about going after anyone who was copying his double-locking design. Eventually he agreed to license his patents to various companies. You will see that "Licensed under Floyd Rose Patents" on trems made by Gotoh, those various Edge trems found on Ibanez guitars, the various Kahler trems that used locking clamps, and really any legititmate trem system that used the Floyd Rose-style clamping system. Floyd's patents have recently expired (within the past 2-3 years) so the systems still around made by Gotoh and Ibanez no longer have to have that "licensed under Floyd Rose Patents" script.

Regarding the MIJ HRR Strats - from what I remember the "HRR" stood for "Hot Rod Reissue" because they were cosmetically like either a '50s or a '60s Strat in terms of colors, pickguard style (i.e. single ply 8-screw on the '50s, 3-ply 11 screw on the '60s) BUT they all had 22-fret necks, humbuckers in the bridge position, and the locking trem.


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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 6:09 pm
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Strat Plus and Ultra...


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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:06 pm
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davidwhitson wrote:
Strat Plus and Ultra...

+ 1

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