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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:50 pm
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So let me ask you this...can you go to Sears and get them to give you all the specs to a 15 year old refridgerater model they don't even make anymore? Nope...Companies do not date and serialize their guitars for YOU, they do it for accounting during manufacture for the most part. Ever since Fender got out from under CBS, they have done a pretty good job of serializing thier guitars, give em a brake for crying out loud. And TOPPSCORE, give us all a break with your picking at Fender, no one really wants to hear it. This is supposed to be an information sharing and positive place for FANS of Fender...so if you must be on here, stay positive or go somewhere else!

T2

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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:31 pm
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T2Stratman wrote:
So let me ask you this...can you go to Sears and get them to give you all the specs to a 15 year old refridgerater model they don't even make anymore? Nope...Companies do not date and serialize their guitars for YOU, they do it for accounting during manufacture for the most part. Ever since Fender got out from under CBS, they have done a pretty good job of serializing thier guitars, give em a brake for crying out loud. And TOPPSCORE, give us all a break with your picking at Fender, no one really wants to hear it. This is supposed to be an information sharing and positive place for FANS of Fender...so if you must be on here, stay positive or go somewhere else!T2

T2S You have a problem reading, and for the third time. So, read things twice before your
bitter comments are posted. Thought I was on your foe list ~ please make that happen
as you are still sustaining being Mr. Bitter. PM me if you will.

Anyway, for others misreading T2S's misreading of my statement, I declared that:
"I declare that modern day Fender is and will be much better about
serial numbers and recording correct components in amps and guitars."
What else can I say??? Read it and weep, t2s

Also, I stated very clearly:
"IMHO and cannot be verified, Fender, being a public company, now/recently, must have
tighter controls for their inventory, accounting, service & marketing departments.
Fender knows it has had a bad rap with parts, components and serial number consistency".
Fender knows "they have a history of sloppy performance, but, what does it take to change
the serial numbers on January 1st? Not much.
No more Leo Fender saving a buck at every turn of the production line."

The above statements, relate to the E4 serial numbers (WE WERE DISCUSSING),
as well as the S8 serial numbers spanning over several years with the same set of numbers.
I experienced a 1978 Telecster with S8, and shockingly learned it was a 1982.

So, Mr. Bitterman, read up. Fender kept using serial numbers into future years till
they ran out. Read Read Read or experience experience experience what Fender did
during the 1950s till the 1990s and maybe later.

I have read tons of material stating Leo Fender was toooooooooo tight to change
tube charts, serial number stickers, amp component change records, etc.

Now days, and maybe for the past few years, I am betting that Fender has not
made the same decisions that Fender did make during it's first fifty years. We'll find out
in the future: As most modern 2000-2012 amp & guitar owners do not care if their
serial numbers are off a year. As most modern 2000-2012 amp & guitar buyers
do not care if their serial numbers are off a year.

Personally, I have purchased two Cyber Twin amps, two Supersonic amps,
the Fender G-DEC-Thirty, several Stratocaster and Telecasters; with all made between
2002-2012, and I really do not care or know or give a darn if the serial numbers are
correct or a year off. Just does not matter. Nobody cares about modern products
because FENDER HAS GOTTEN THINGS RIGHT THIS PAST DECADE ~ HOOOORAY!!! BOO-YEAH!!!

Plus, Fender had to clean up it's act from the first 50 years when they went public.

How many of you (not including Mr Bitter) would bet the house that Fender 2000-2012
is sooooooo much better organized "Any Which Way Fender Can Be"
and NOT "Every Which Way Fender Could Be Loose" from the years 1946-1999???

Alright. I am a dedicated FENDER MAN.
If they make a mistake or need suggestions from the field,
better from a Fender Lover, than a Fender Hater.

Bitter Man, you can defend Fender's sloppy practices from 1946-1990s, that is your opinion.
Actually, Fender's sloppy practices make collecting Vintage amps and guitars very interesting.
Just let others have their opinions WITHOUT YOUR SNIDE REMARKS.
THIS IS THE THIRD TIME YOU HAVE BEEN OFF-BASE.

PM me if you dare. Toppscore 8)

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Last edited by Toppscore on Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:15 pm
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On to a much better subject:

Since this is a Fender Ultra, Fender Plus Deluxe and Fender Plus thread . . . . .
I finally, got the two Fender "Plus Series" guitars I was seeking: Ultra & Plus Deluxe.


Today, I purchased this Mint 1996 Fender Plus Deluxe Stratocaster with Original HSC
http://www.ebay.com/itm/170852879552?ss ... 1439.l2649

I studied the Fender Plus Deluxe market, and noticed that this was the best in original
condition and was the lowest priced. IMHO, several of the Plus Deluxes priced below $1000
are missing original parts, have been upgraded or are not Plus Deluxes at all!!!
The $1028 I paid for the Fender Plus Deluxe includes an Original HSC, and is the best deal for me.
Most Fender Plus Deluxes are listed or have been sold from $1100-$2400



Last week, I purchased this 1990 Fender Ultra Stratocaster with Original HSC
http://www.ebay.com/itm/280890192783?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

The Ultra purchased last week is in fantastic condition with some light wear.
I got it for $1135 and have seen models advertised or sold for $1500-$2500.
"Price wise" with the original case, excellent original components & physical condition;
I feel it's a great deal.

Next week I will post pictures, and within two weeks I'll do a
sound/tone comparison test between = Fender Plus Deluxe (versus) Fender Ultra
with a variety of vintage and modern amps.

John C., Xhefri and many others, thanks for all of your help, answers & support!!!
Take care. Toppscore 8)

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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:26 am
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Thought I'd throw some updated pics of my '90 Ultra (Antique Burst) & '93 Plus (Carribean Mist)

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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:57 am
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Blertles wrote:
Thought I'd throw some updated pics of my '90 Ultra (Antique Burst) & '93 Plus (Carribean Mist)


Blertles = awesome looking guitars.
All waxed and shined up.
Carribean Mist and a tropical drink will go hand in hand :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:04 am
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Toppscore wrote:
IMHO and cannot be verified, Fender, being a public company, now/recently,
must have tighter controls for their inventory, accounting, service & marketing
departments.

So, Fender knows it has had a bad rap with parts, components and serial number
consistency, I declare that modern day Fender is and will be much better about
serial numbers and recording correct components in amps and guitars.

They have a history of sloppy performance, but, what does it take to change
the serial numbers on January 1st? Not much. No more Leo Fender saving a buck
at every turn of the production line.

What say you.
Toppscore 8)


Toppscore - I wouldn't call this "sloppy performance", but it isn't quite so simple as just changing the serial numbers on January 1 (well, let's call it January 2 because I don't think anyone wants to work on January 1). These days Fender does likely change the numbers fairly soon after Janauray 1 - but (and this is a big BUT) don't forget that they make up bodies and necks ahead of time. That means that there are necks that were finished (which includes putting on the serial number decal) in November or December that are stockpiled for a while until they are assembled - they have to have bodies and necks to assemble on January 2 or else they would have to idle the assembly workers for a couple of weeks while they produce January dated bodies and necks. Frankly I have no idea how long Fender lets their necks "settle in" before assembly - other small builders like Tom Anderson and John Suhr let their necks "settle in" for a month or so before they move to final assembly. So you get the transition periods.

Also they don't want NAMM to mean "Not yet Available, Maybe in May" like it does for some companies; they want a stock of any new model introduced sitting in their warehouse so they can fill at least some of the orders for they get in January. So that means they will almost always have several production runs of new models they plan to introduce in January that were assembled the previous year - ready for shipment after the trade show.

Also - and here is the main reason why Fender's IPO won't impact how they do business - Fender does have an internal database that can tell you by individual serial number what date your guitar was shipped and what dealer it was shipped out to. I would say that as long as Fender has internal inventory control that can be audited whenever necessary then they have fulfilled any obligations they may have now as a public company. Also don't forget that some of the really crazy serial number issues occurred during the period when they were owned by CBS - a public company.

However, that internal database starts when Fender got a new inventory control system sometime during 1993. That database is not available to the public, but that is what they access when you contact consumer relations about serial numbers. While they couldn't give that info for that Strat Ultra you picked up they should be able to give you that data for the Strat Plus Deluxe you just bought.


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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:47 am
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Right on John. Fender has been very helpful with every purchase that I have made. I had a 1980 The Strat, 1983 Elite, and my current American Series and Strat Plus Deluxe. They list my Strat Plus Deluxe as black and not Mystic Black however. I learner more from Xhefri for that one. Manufacturing and serialization is not an exact science. Every rule will have an exception.


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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:11 am
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John C wrote:
Toppscore wrote:
IMHO and cannot be verified, Fender, being a public company, now/recently, must have tighter controls for their inventory, accounting, service & marketing departments. So, Fender knows it has had a bad rap with parts, components and serial number consistency, I declare that modern day Fender is and will be much better about serial numbers and recording correct components in amps and guitars. They have a history of sloppy performance, but, what does it take to change the serial numbers on January 1st? Not much. No more Leo Fender saving a buck at every turn of the production line. What say you. Toppscore 8)
Toppscore - I wouldn't call this "sloppy performance", but it isn't quite so simple as just changing the serial numbers on January 1 (well, let's call it January 2 because I don't think anyone wants to work on January 1). These days Fender does likely change the numbers fairly soon after Janauray 1 - but (and this is a big BUT) don't forget that they make up bodies and necks ahead of time. That means that there are necks that were finished (which includes putting on the serial number decal) in November or December that are stockpiled for a while until they are assembled - they have to have bodies and necks to assemble on January 2 or else they would have to idle the assembly workers for a couple of weeks while they produce January dated bodies and necks. Frankly I have no idea how long Fender lets their necks "settle in" before assembly - other small builders like Tom Anderson and John Suhr let their necks "settle in" for a month or so before they move to final assembly. So you get the transition periods.

Also they don't want NAMM to mean "Not yet Available, Maybe in May" like it does for some companies; they want a stock of any new model introduced sitting in their warehouse so they can fill at least some of the orders for they get in January. So that means they will almost always have several production runs of new models they plan to introduce in January that were assembled the previous year - ready for shipment after the trade show.

Also - and here is the main reason why Fender's IPO won't impact how they do business - Fender does have an internal database that can tell you by individual serial number what date your guitar was shipped and what dealer it was shipped out to. I would say that as long as Fender has internal inventory control that can be audited whenever necessary then they have fulfilled any obligations they may have now as a public company. Also don't forget that some of the really crazy serial number issues occurred during the period when they were owned by CBS - a public company.

However, that internal database starts when Fender got a new inventory control system sometime during 1993. That database is not available to the public, but that is what they access when you contact consumer relations about serial numbers. While they couldn't give that info for that Strat Ultra you picked up they should be able to give you that data for the Strat Plus Deluxe you just bought.


Thanks, John C. All very good points. Much appreciated.
Timing when to change serial numbers, tube charts, schematics printing,
recorded component variations, . . . . can be a hassle.

Pre-1993 serial numbers, non-recorded changes to schematics, tube-chart changes,
non-recorded component changes, Fender variations, etc.;
all did happen and all do make the study of Fender history interesting.

To me, this makes collecting Fender guitars & amplifiers a non-exact science;
leaves room for open discussion., and
allows truth to the statement: Never Say Always, and Always Never Say Never

I do enjoy the subject of inconsistencies of Fender's products
and I enjoy the detective work trying to under the variations.
======================================

John C. Sorry if the word sloppy is not a good one for you. Works for me.
But, let me ask you this. Think Fender 1946-1985. Do you fell Fender could have
done things better? There are others, but in this thread the E4 & S8 serial numbers
cause problems for many. It is obvious that Fender had a plan for changing
serial numbers to represent each year = S6 S7 S8 S9 E0 E1 E2 E3 E4, etc.
What I consider sloppy is that they just did not follow through on it.
To me, that is lazy, sloppy, uncaring, etc. (and maybe all in the name of saving a dollar).

I wrote the following Fender Bassman article on Wiki from the top down to "Reissues".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fender_Bassman
I have deeply studied 1940s-1971 Fender History.
I have read about and I have experienced quite a bit.
I would never say that Fender could be justified towards the way they planned things.
They were in survival mode. They used parts and pieces till inventory ran out.
They substituted at will. Can you count the number of "transitional" amps & guitars?

Let's look at the world's most streamline accurate & pristine company today and compare
1940s-1980s Fender, and Fender would have had lots of room to improve.

Now, before someone thinks I am hating on Fender, no way at all.

I loved their first 35 years of "pull-up-the-boot-straps, start-up, survival mode mentality".
Gotta accept it for what it was at Fender.

But, to become a public company, the planning & implementation of strict disciplined
business processes takes years ahead of the "IPO moment". Fender took those years
insuring a quality business structure to be in place for Wall Street’s scrutiny.
This is great for any business. And good for Fender. Happy they went IPO’d Public.

I am suggesting we think of Fender as a company of Five Different Eras:
1946-1965 was the "PreCBS Era #1"
1966-1982 was the "CBS Era #2, before Paul Rivera"
1983-1986 was the "CBS Era #3, The Paul Rivera Era"
1986-2008 was the "Fender Employee Ownership Era #4"
2009-2012 was the "Preparation for Public Ownership IPO Era #5"

My theory is that Fender was run differently during each era. That included
changes towards serial numbers, tube chart numbers, correcting schematics,
component installation accountability, inventory/parts/vendor/supply controls, etc.

Any comments to the contrary? Please contribute.

Take care. Toppscore 8)

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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:04 am
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Interesting thread. A couple of side comments for discussion.


John C. stated, interestingly enough, that Fender had to make parts such as
guitar necks, guitar bodies, amplifier cabinets, amplifier chassis, etc.; ahead of time.

Therefore, changing serial numbers and date codes from the past year to new
serial numbers and date codes for the new year, could not happen on January 1st.

That already pre-built parts/components, many already serialized/dated with previous year
SN#s and date codes, were put into production well past January the next year and
shipped the next year with previous SN#s and date codes.

This makes real sense to me, and probably happened as John C. suggests.

Now for my discussion point(s) taking three examples: Guitars with the
Fender Serial Numbers starting with "S8" were shipped over five years from 1978-1982.
Fender guitars with SN# starting with "E4" were shipped over five years from 1984-1988.

If John C. is accurate, that the guitar necks and neck-body-cavity labels were already made
in 1978 to carry the "S8" serial numbers, and in 1984 to carry the "E4" serial numbers,
do you believe that Fender overbuilt four extra years of guitar body/necks to keep building
guitars for the four extra years with the wrong "S8" & "E4" serial numbers glossed over?

Also, Fender used S7 S9 E0 E1 E2 serial numbers at the same time "S8"s were shipping.
I have already read about the mess of "E4" serial numbers.

Something to think about. I am interested. I think that Fender did not make five years of
"S8" & "E4" necks all at once. But, I'm open to learning more. Fender Man wants to learn :lol:


The second item to discuss is my Fender Twin Reverb.
It has an AB763 tube chart.
It has many components before May 1968.
Fender made major modifications to create a new design AC568.

Think about it. Fender ships thousands of amps each month.
Da Da!!! We just created our new modification, The AC568!!!

OK. A new design. Fender already has hundreds/thousands of partial pre-made amps
in the production-line with the AB763 design, circuitry and components.
When Fender makes changes to circuitry & design, the change in design must be complete.
The changes must be tested. The modifications must work. Engineers & QC must approve.

Therefore, on that one dark lonely cold rainy windy miserable day during May 1968,
Fender Engineers shouted, "IT's ALIVE!!! IT's ALIVE". And all of Fender bowed and
broke into massive celebrations and onto the streets of small town California USA :shock:

I am trying to convey that at one moment, Fender did not have AC568
and one moment later, AC568 was cause for celebration.

But what about the thousands of amps & pre-made components???
When and how would the AC568 changes be implemented???

Personally, I say Fender would keep shipping AB763's until they were depleted.
And anything new would become AC568s.
That AB763 amps still were produced and shipped after May 1968;
as well as AC568 amps were produced and shipped after May 1968.

There is no way ALL of Fender could change from AB763 to AC568 the moment
the new schematics, circuitry, design layout, components & chassis became successful.
RIGHT???

To me, it is so funny how people make things to be Always or Never.
Could AB763 amps have been actually built and shipped in June of 1963? YES!!!
Could AB763 amps have been actually built and shipped after June of 1968? YES!!!

This applies to all changes, modifications, transitional amps & guitars.
Never Say Always. Always Never Say Never. Right :lol:

Please comment and please tell me how I am wrong.
And, please try to take opinion out and add some substance to your remarks.
Thank you. Toppscore 8)

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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:20 pm
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Toppscore wrote:
John C. stated, interestingly enough, that Fender had to make parts such as
guitar necks, guitar bodies, amplifier cabinets, amplifier chassis, etc.; ahead of time.

Therefore, changing serial numbers and date codes from the past year to new
serial numbers and date codes for the new year, could not happen on January 1st.

That already pre-built parts/components, many already serialized/dated with previous year
SN#s and date codes, were put into production well past January the next year and
shipped the next year with previous SN#s and date codes.

This makes real sense to me, and probably happened as John C. suggests.

Now for my discussion point(s) taking three examples: Guitars with the
Fender Serial Numbers starting with "S8" were shipped over five years from 1978-1982.
Fender guitars with SN# starting with "E4" were shipped over five years from 1984-1988.

If John C. is accurate, that the guitar necks and neck-body-cavity labels were already made
in 1978 to carry the "S8" serial numbers, and in 1984 to carry the "E4" serial numbers,
do you believe that Fender overbuilt four extra years of guitar body/necks to keep building
guitars for the four extra years with the wrong "S8" & "E4" serial numbers glossed over?

Also, Fender used S7 S9 E0 E1 E2 serial numbers at the same time "S8"s were shipping.
I have already read about the mess of "E4" serial numbers.

Something to think about. I am interested. I think that Fender did not make five years of
"S8" & "E4" necks all at once. But, I'm open to learning more. Fender Man wants to learn :lol:


No, you're taking my post to a real extreme. I'm talking about present-day Fender given their current production levels. They wouldn't keep a neck around for years. The American Standard necks were completely different specs from a CBS-era Standard that might have also carried the "E3" or "E4" serial number. That was clearly a case of FMIC using up the parts that they acquired from CBS -which included headstock decals. Yes, I guess "sloppy" is as good a word for their tracking of serial numbers in the Leo, CBS, and even early FMIC eras; when I said I wouldn't call it "sloppy" was refering to their present day transitions.

Even in the CBS era they didn't make 100,000 necks in 1978 and use them up; I'm talking about product flows where they make a batch of American Standard Strat necks, then a batch of American Standard Tele necks, then a batch of American Deluxe Tele necks, etc. If you pull the neck from say a Strat that you know was shipped and purchased in 1980 Strat with an "S9" serial number and you will find a neck date of sometime in 1980. I have no idea what would have constituted a batch in either 1980 or today; one would assume the necks would be batches of 500 or so; I believe I have read that body batches were more like 250 for standard colors.

In another post you mention that Fender was in the survival mode - that was surely the case when Fender made the decision to use up the "E4" numbers since they weren't sure if the American Standards were going to take off. Of course, Fender's bet on those designs was correct and they did take off. Per "The Stratocaster Chronicles" FMIC went from producing 7 guitars per week when their factory first opened in the fall of 1985 (all reissues of course) to making 150 guitars per week by about mid-1987. Who knows how many they make per week now.

You mention Fender's use of other serial numbers - I'm not sure but I believe back in the CBS days Fender headstock decals were one piece - Fender logo, model name, serial number, and any other writing. So while they were using up S9 numbers on Strats they were using E0 numbers on other models, particularly new models like the Lead Series and the Bullet Series.


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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:43 pm
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John C wrote:
Toppscore wrote:
John C. stated, interestingly enough, that Fender had to make parts such as
guitar necks, guitar bodies, amplifier cabinets, amplifier chassis, etc.; ahead of time.

Therefore, changing serial numbers and date codes from the past year to new
serial numbers and date codes for the new year, could not happen on January 1st.

That already pre-built parts/components, many already serialized/dated with previous year
SN#s and date codes, were put into production well past January the next year and
shipped the next year with previous SN#s and date codes.

This makes real sense to me, and probably happened as John C. suggests.

Now for my discussion point(s) taking three examples: Guitars with the
Fender Serial Numbers starting with "S8" were shipped over five years from 1978-1982.
Fender guitars with SN# starting with "E4" were shipped over five years from 1984-1988.

If John C. is accurate, that the guitar necks and neck-body-cavity labels were already made
in 1978 to carry the "S8" serial numbers, and in 1984 to carry the "E4" serial numbers,
do you believe that Fender overbuilt four extra years of guitar body/necks to keep building
guitars for the four extra years with the wrong "S8" & "E4" serial numbers glossed over?

Also, Fender used S7 S9 E0 E1 E2 serial numbers at the same time "S8"s were shipping.
I have already read about the mess of "E4" serial numbers.

Something to think about. I am interested. I think that Fender did not make five years of
"S8" & "E4" necks all at once. But, I'm open to learning more. Fender Man wants to learn :lol:
No, you're taking my post to a real extreme. I'm talking about present-day Fender given their current production levels. They wouldn't keep a neck around for years. The American Standard necks were completely different specs from a CBS-era Standard that might have also carried the "E3" or "E4" serial number. That was clearly a case of FMIC using up the parts that they acquired from CBS -which included headstock decals. Yes, I guess "sloppy" is as good a word for their tracking of serial numbers in the Leo, CBS, and even early FMIC eras; when I said I wouldn't call it "sloppy" was refering to their present day transitions.

Even in the CBS era they didn't make 100,000 necks in 1978 and use them up; I'm talking about product flows where they make a batch of American Standard Strat necks, then a batch of American Standard Tele necks, then a batch of American Deluxe Tele necks, etc. If you pull the neck from say a Strat that you know was shipped and purchased in 1980 Strat with an "S9" serial number and you will find a neck date of sometime in 1980. I have no idea what would have constituted a batch in either 1980 or today; one would assume the necks would be batches of 500 or so; I believe I have read that body batches were more like 250 for standard colors.

In another post you mention that Fender was in the survival mode - that was surely the case when Fender made the decision to use up the "E4" numbers since they weren't sure if the American Standards were going to take off. Of course, Fender's bet on those designs was correct and they did take off. Per "The Stratocaster Chronicles" FMIC went from producing 7 guitars per week when their factory first opened in the fall of 1985 (all reissues of course) to making 150 guitars per week by about mid-1987. Who knows how many they make per week now.

You mention Fender's use of other serial numbers - I'm not sure but I believe back in the CBS days Fender headstock decals were one piece - Fender logo, model name, serial number, and any other writing. So while they were using up S9 numbers on Strats they were using E0 numbers on other models, particularly new models like the Lead Series and the Bullet Series.


John C. No problem at all. I'm with you.
For me, taking things to the extreme helps to clarify and isolate.
Just wondered what was the reason for "S8"s & "E4"s (not to forget many other SN#s)
to be scattered over five years. Cannot cost that much to make labels.

"when I said I wouldn't call it "sloppy" was referring to their present day transitions."
Actually, I was focused upon the total over-all 75 year Fender history
I should have been more clear. Sorry :)


Do you like my idea/theory about the five Fender eras and how things
probably were different in each era? Of course a generalization . . . . .

It is my belief (and probably yours) that from 1990s-2012, Fender straightened up their act.
Notice the current serial number strategy for Tributes, Mexico, Japan, Custom Shop, etc etc etc?
I like the current serial number structure on both modern amps and modern guitars.

Being in the thick of the current Fender products on the USA market, it may take time (years/decades)
for us collectors to fully realize that Fender's "transitional" amp/guitar models, Fender's serial number
structure, Fender's consistency towards schematics & components, etc etc etc . . . . will have
a better performance record during the past 15 years when compared to the first 50 years.



"You mention Fender's use of other serial numbers - I'm not sure but I believe back in the CBS days Fender headstock decals were one piece - Fender logo, model name, serial number, and any other writing. So while they were using up S9 numbers on Strats they were using E0 numbers on other models, particularly new models like the Lead Series and the Bullet Series"

This is very interesting to me. I had an S8 Telecaster.
I bought it new. I could not remember when.
Since it was an S8, I just believed that I bought it in 1978.
Until I sold it in March. I took the neck off for pictures.
In the cavity was the same serial number label as on the head stock.
But, the green stamped neck-butt-end ultimately deciphered to 1982!!!
I 'bout fell over backwards.
The pickups were 1981.
The Pots were 1981.
And I had been living and talking all these years about it being a 1978 :lol:


John C. I really enjoy reading your comments around the forum.
You are well read and present yourself extraordinarily very well.

Being the great Ultra & Plus Deluxe & Plus thread that this is,
and being the influence this thread has had upon myself,
I purchased both the Ultra & Plus Deluxe guitars based upon the
knowledge garnered from this thread. I almost made three
or four bad bidding/buying decisions because of serial numbers,
false/fake Ultras or Plus Deluxes, and/or false claims by sellers.
Thanks again. Toppscore 8)


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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:43 pm
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Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:08 pm
Posts: 22
Location: The REAL Jersey Shore
So, how the HECK do you post pictures here?


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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:12 pm
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Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:16 am
Posts: 2337
mcmacguy wrote:
So, how the HECK do you post pictures here?

Get the photo link in .jpg and then add the above "Img" commands before & after.
Also, the same with website and Internet links, add the "URL" command before & after.
Toppscore 8)

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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:36 am
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Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:08 pm
Posts: 22
Location: The REAL Jersey Shore
Toppscore wrote:
mcmacguy wrote:
So, how the HECK do you post pictures here?

Get the photo link in .jpg and then add the above "Img" commands before & after.
Also, the same with website and Internet links, add the "URL" command before & after.
Toppscore 8)

Ah, so you don't actually upload a pic, you post a link?


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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:45 pm
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Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:16 am
Posts: 2337
Are any modern Stratocasters, Telecasters, Jaguars, Jazz Masters
shipping with Lace Sensors pickups?

Does Fender consider the N3 pickups to be a replacement for the Lace Sensors?
or, Does Fender use both N3 & Lace Sensor? or something else?
Toppscore 8)

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