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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:11 am
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chromeface wrote:
The 35th Anniversary was a souped-up version of the Plus with three Silver Lace pickups and switchable TBX and MDX tone controls. It also shared many of the features found on the Strat Ultra such as the abalone-inlaid ebony fretboard, Hipshot Tremsetter, Sperzel locking gears and quilted maple top, but lacked off a Wilkinson roller nut. Why not asking John C and Xhefri? :roll:


Hi. I just purchased a first year 1990 Fender Ultra Sunburst.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/280890192783?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649


Been chatting with John C & Xhwfri about this and that over time.
Since you are the owner, thought you'd know. Toppscore 8)

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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:42 am
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This guy claims the following is a 1993 Fender Ultra

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-Fender-American-Ultra-Stratocaster-w-OHSC-USA-/350564451121?pt=Guitar&hash=item519f450331

1) The nut is not a roller nut.

2) The word "Ultra" is not on the back neck plate (see the ninth of twelve pictures).

3) Plus, I am not too sure, but look where the toggle switch is located
and I believe that is not the location for Ultras. PLMK how wrong I am.

I have reviewed a good sample size of Fender Ultras, and IMHO,
all of the toggle switches for Fender Ultras are between the two TONE controls,
not between the VOLUME & 1st TONE controls. What do you think?

Am I correct? Is this NOT an Ultra?
Is it a Standard Strat with "Ultra like" features?


Toppscore 8)

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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:01 am
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Someone has heavily modded the guitar.

Pickguard appears to be not stock. Ditto for the pickup configuration and the neck plate.

A Strat Ultra should normally have a Blue in the neck, a Gold in the middle and a humbucking Red in the bridge. The LSR roller has been replaced with a bone nut.


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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:33 am
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Toppscore wrote:
This guy claims the following is a 1993 Fender Ultra

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-Fender-American-Ultra-Stratocaster-w-OHSC-USA-/350564451121?pt=Guitar&hash=item519f450331

1) The nut is not a roller nut.

2) The word "Ultra" is not on the back neck plate (see the ninth of twelve pictures).

3) Plus, I am not too sure, but look where the toggle switch is located
and I believe that is not the location for Ultras. PLMK how wrong I am.

I have reviewed a good sample size of Fender Ultras, and IMHO,
all of the toggle switches for Fender Ultras are between the two TONE controls,
not between the VOLUME & 1st TONE controls. What do you think?

Am I correct? Is this NOT an Ultra?
Is it a Standard Strat with "Ultra like" features?


Toppscore 8)


I'll agree with Chromeface - this one appears to be a modded Strat Plus. Maybe it's my monitor here but I'm only seeing the body as gloss black, not the transparent black burst used on the Strat Ultra that shows the maple veneers. It looks like the LSR nut has been removed and replaced with a very ugly nut of some kind that was made wide enough to fill the space left by the LSR. Also the dual pickup is a blue/red, not the dual red that was factory spec on the Ultra. Probably someone just modded their Strat Plus to be a bit more Ultra-like by swapping the bridge pickup from the standard single gold to that dual blue/red; I'm sure they just put the mini-toggle where they thought it should go for their convenience, not necessarily where it was on an Ultra.

Regarding the 35th Anniversary Strat - those are really rare and I though they were one of the first things to come out of the Custom Shop once it was officially launched. I've only seen one of them in a book; never in the flesh.


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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:47 pm
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John C wrote:
Toppscore wrote:
This guy claims the following is a 1993 Fender Ultra

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-Fender-American-Ultra-Stratocaster-w-OHSC-USA-/350564451121?pt=Guitar&hash=item519f450331

1) The nut is not a roller nut.

2) The word "Ultra" is not on the back neck plate (see the ninth of twelve pictures).

3) Plus, I am not too sure, but look where the toggle switch is located
and I believe that is not the location for Ultras. PLMK how wrong I am.

I have reviewed a good sample size of Fender Ultras, and IMHO,
all of the toggle switches for Fender Ultras are between the two TONE controls,
not between the VOLUME & 1st TONE controls. What do you think?

Am I correct? Is this NOT an Ultra?
Is it a Standard Strat with "Ultra like" features?


Toppscore 8)


I'll agree with Chromeface - this one appears to be a modded Strat Plus. Maybe it's my monitor here but I'm only seeing the body as gloss black, not the transparent black burst used on the Strat Ultra that shows the maple veneers. It looks like the LSR nut has been removed and replaced with a very ugly nut of some kind that was made wide enough to fill the space left by the LSR. Also the dual pickup is a blue/red, not the dual red that was factory spec on the Ultra. Probably someone just modded their Strat Plus to be a bit more Ultra-like by swapping the bridge pickup from the standard single gold to that dual blue/red; I'm sure they just put the mini-toggle where they thought it should go for their convenience, not necessarily where it was on an Ultra.

Regarding the 35th Anniversary Strat - those are really rare and I though they were one of the first things to come out of the Custom Shop once it was officially launched. I've only seen one of them in a book; never in the flesh.


OK. I sent the seller both of your comments and my comments.
I reported the listing to EBay.
We shall see. Toppscore :)

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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:33 pm
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The EBay Seller was cool about it.
He took down the listing and vowed to study.
I pointed him to Xhefri's website.

Thank goodness someone did not end up paying good money for a fake Fender Ultra.

Toppscore 8)

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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:00 am
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Toppscore wrote:
Question, NY & Xhefri. Is not an "E4xxxxxx" serial number for 1984????
PLMK. It is important as I study Fender guitars and serial numbers.


E4###### can be between 1984 and 1998 (included) except 1985 and 1986 because CBS sold the company during 1985 and I was told that only vintage models (V######) were made in 1986... if I'm not wrong.


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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 7:28 am
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Toppscore wrote:
The EBay Seller was cool about it.
He took down the listing and vowed to study.
I pointed him to Xhefri's website.

Thank goodness someone did not end up paying good money for a fake Fender Ultra.

Toppscore 8)

I emailed this guy when this auction first started and he never responded. This was a Strat Plus that was modded and messed with. It was a late 1993 because it at one time had an LSR Roller nut replace with a piece of bone or plastic. No string trees—again, a Plus sign. The mini-switch was in the wrong place. It is common to see people put items on ePay who do not know what they have and kind of guess about it.

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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 7:32 am
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Graon wrote:
Toppscore wrote:
Question, NY & Xhefri. Is not an "E4xxxxxx" serial number for 1984????
PLMK. It is important as I study Fender guitars and serial numbers.


E4###### can be between 1984 and 1998 (included) except 1985 and 1986 because CBS sold the company during 1985 and I was told that only vintage models (V######) were made in 1986... if I'm not wrong.

The E4 serial number was used from 1987-1989 depending on the guitar. I do not think Fender used these on the Vintage reissues, but that is an area I have not studied much. Many of the 1987 and later Plus models will have a serial number that says one thing and the date in the neck pocket in the body or on the butt end of neck that says something different. Some have said this was due to the use of parts left over from the CBS buyout, or even serial number decals left over from CBS. The very first Plus' will have an E4XXXXX serial number indicating they are from 1984. Truth is, it is a 1987 and as late as early 89. Production for the Plus Series started in mid-1987

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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:10 pm
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Xhefri wrote:
Graon wrote:
Toppscore wrote:
Question, NY & Xhefri. Is not an "E4xxxxxx" serial number for 1984????
PLMK. It is important as I study Fender guitars and serial numbers.


E4###### can be between 1984 and 1998 (included) except 1985 and 1986 because CBS sold the company during 1985 and I was told that only vintage models (V######) were made in 1986... if I'm not wrong.

The E4 serial number was used from 1987-1989 depending on the guitar. I do not think Fender used these on the Vintage reissues, but that is an area I have not studied much. Many of the 1987 and later Plus models will have a serial number that says one thing and the date in the neck pocket in the body or on the butt end of neck that says something different. Some have said this was due to the use of parts left over from the CBS buyout, or even serial number decals left over from CBS. The very first Plus' will have an E4XXXXX serial number indicating they are from 1984. Truth is, it is a 1987 and as late as early 89. Production for the Plus Series started in mid-1987


I've kind of researched all Fenders from the time I stupidly let a '67 Strat that I could have had for $500 slip through my fingers back in 1985.

The vintage reissues have never used the "modern" serial numbers; from day 1 in 1982 (still CBS-era Fender) they have used the "Vxxxxxx" serial numbers placed on the neck plate with the execption of the '52 Tele model - it has just a number stamped on the bridge under a stamping of "Fender" (but not a "Fender" logo; just "FENDER" in all caps).

Okay - I have read this story in several books, old Guitar Player magazines (I used to have a fairly complete collection going back to early 1980 but a couple of years ago I cut it down to just my favorite issues prior to a move), and various on-line sources including several posts by our own Rob Schwarz of Fender. Here is the story on the serial numbers and the factory timeline as I understand it:

CBS decides to put Fender up for sale in late 1984. By the end of the year they have all but ceased production - only some final assembly takes place in January 1985 or so until CBS does a complete shutdown, meaning that no new necks, bodies, etc. were produced after 1984; just a small crew assembling and shipping out what was on hand. FMIC, a company created by the last management team CBS hired, buys the company and takes it private in early February 1985. The sale is for the name, intellectual property, and all "work in process" parts, etc. but not for the factory and machinery.

Here is where my history gets a bit "fuzzy" - I have heard that FMIC did finish completing instruments from the parts they received in the sale (okay, these numbers are made up for an example - if they got 50 Elite Strat bodies, 35 Elite Strat necks, and 27 Elite Strat pickup assemblies they would have completed and shipped out 27 Elite Strats). I'm not sure if this happened; maybe Rob remembers and will stop by to set the record straight on that.

What I do know is that it took FMIC several months during 1985 to find their new factory location (in Corona, CA but I believe their current facility is their second facility there) and get the machinery needed to make bodies, necks, etc. They did wind up buying some of the original machinery from CBS when CBS did liquidate the old factory in Fullerton. It took them until the fall of 1985 (call it October) to start producing a handful of reissues a day. In the interim they were importing guitars from Japan - some reissues but also the "Contemporary" line of guitars. I read in "The Stratocaster Chronicles" that FMIC refused to ship any of their USA-made reissues until they felt they were better than the MIJ ones they were selling. When they crossed that quality point, they felt they were ready to go into production.

They developed what became the American Standard line (along with the Strat Plus) during 1986, showing prototypes of the American Standard and something called the "Vintage Plus" at the summer 1986 NAMM show - if I'm remembering the old Guitar Player piece correctly that "Vintage Plus" sounds like a "missing link" between the old Elites and the later Strat Plus and Clapton Signature guitars. The American Standard goes into production in late 1986 and is officially released at the NAMM show in January - I'm not sure if Fender did a "soft launch" by actually shipping any in 1986 or if they just stored them in a warehouse to fulfill orders from the show.

I've read several places that among the parts FMIC received were headstock decals and unused serial number decals (possibly these were one-piece at that time) with mostly "E4xxxxx" numbers but there were a few left-over still with "E3xxxxx" numbers on them. FMIC just decided to use these instead of throwing them out when they put the American Standards and eventually the Strat Pluses into production. I've seen a couple of American Standard Strats with "E3xxxxx" serials, and I have seen more than just a few American Standard Teles with "E3xxxxx" serials - I suppose the 1983-1984 CBS-era "Standard" and "Elite" Teles were even slower sellers than their Strat cousins.

Of course since Fender was really just getting their production going again it took them quite a while to use up these left-over "E4xxxxx" serial decals, with some of them not being used until 1989. However, they did finally start using some "E8xxxxx" decals about mid-1988, starting to get somewhat "on-track", but really Fender was always kind of "loose" about serial numbers - for example CBS wound up using "S8xxxxx" decals on Teles for years, and "S9xxxxx" decals on Strats from 1979 until 1982 (not sure if any of the last of the large headstock Strats ever had an "E2xxxxx" serial decal, but the "Smith Strats" of 1982 did use "E2xxxxx" decals).

Hopefully this helps instead of derailing this great thread on Strat Plus, Plus Deluxe, and Ultra models.


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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:26 pm
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Great post John C. That is pretty much what I remember reading in a few Fender history books. And then there are those fuzzy parts! Another fuzzy part was the setting up of Fender Japan at the large, expansive Fugi Gen Gakki company. I was told by a retired Fender rep who was involved with this era that Fender MIJ JV and SQ guitars, as well as some of the E series, had USA some parts (mostly pickups, switches, and potentiometers) that were shipped over to Japan to help speed up production while the new USA plant was being set up in Corona, California. That of course lead to the famous quote, that came from the new Fender USA management guys who "almost cried" when they traveled to Japan and saw the quality. At that time, Fender USA was still trying to get back up on its feet after the CBS buyout, as USA quality under CBS ownership let their standards slip.

So John C your righto again! thanks for sharing that!

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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:15 pm
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Xhefri wrote:
Toppscore wrote:
The EBay Seller was cool about it.
He took down the listing and vowed to study. I pointed him to Xhefri's website.
Thank goodness someone did not end up paying good money for a fake Fender Ultra.
Toppscore 8)

I emailed this guy when this auction first started and he never responded. This was a Strat Plus that was modded and messed with. It was a late 1993 because it at one time had an LSR Roller nut replace with a piece of bone or plastic. No string trees—again, a Plus sign. The mini-switch was in the wrong place. It is common to see people put items on ePay who do not know what they have and kind of guess about it.


Good. He got hammered by at least two persons.
I told him there is record of the not correct features.
He may have bought it and did not want to believe he was misled. Toppscore 8)

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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:22 pm
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John C wrote:
I've read several places that among the parts FMIC received were headstock decals and unused serial number decals (possibly these were one-piece at that time) with mostly "E4xxxxx" numbers but there were a few left-over still with "E3xxxxx" numbers on them. FMIC just decided to use these instead of throwing them out when they put the American Standards and eventually the Strat Pluses into production. I've seen a couple of American Standard Strats with "E3xxxxx" serials, and I have seen more than just a few American Standard Teles with "E3xxxxx" serials - I suppose the 1983-1984 CBS-era "Standard" and "Elite" Teles were even slower sellers than their Strat cousins.


I see. "E4xxxxx" is for 1984, but many were left over and used later when
the new Fender management started up again. Thanks. Toppscore 8)

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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:26 pm
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John C. & Xhefri.
Did I miss something or has there been any progress on confirming
the 1989 Fender Ultra claimed by a fellow forum memeber?

I just purchased a 1990 Fender Ultra, and would like to know
if I can correctly state it is a first year or a second year Fender Ultra.

Also, Xhefri, would you change your website info if it is a 1989?

Toppscore 8)

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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:34 am
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I've always been a "take it to a pro" guy - when it comes to guitars and cars, ect. Now, I'm working overseas where I have no idea how to find a guitar tech - I've been giving some of these things a try for the first time.

Recently, I got back a Strat Ultra I'd loaned a friend, and it needed a set-up for a number of reasons. The first problem was that the bridge seemed to be "floating" that is to say the bridge plate was above the two bridge screws. When I had the guitar, I had the bridge was "locked down" on advice from my tech (48st NYC but in the 90's). I worked the bridge back into position, the pictures in this forum were helpful.

The issue now is that action is higher than it was before, and truss adjustments to lower it cause string buzz at around the 5th fret. Also the intonation is off, the 12th fretted note is quite a bit sharp comparing to the harmonic. I would post pictures but I can't figure out to do this (my first post). Also, while my guitar tool bag is full of wrenches, I don't seem to have the correct one to raise or lower the strings at the bridge if that is what I need to do.

Its been great to read about the Ultra at this forum, honestly I've always loved this guitar because of the ebony neck - but I've never really known much about what made it different from other Strats. I did discover that I can't put 11's on this Strat - they don't fit through the rolling nut.


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