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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:08 am
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Yo Jeff:

Here's good 'ol cynical yours truly weighing on this conversation...a topic near and dear to our collective hearts as you well know. First off, there's the forever magic of sales pitch hype BS. The Strat Plus evolves early on in the wake of the 80's re-organization of FMIC and their interest in coming up with something evo/revolutionary. Hence, embracing the new pickup technology, the new nut design, bridge saddles, along with the locking tuners, and their first attempts at a Signature Series guitar. You recall the story that this model was first offered to Beck when he asked Fender for a guitar finished in yellow paint to match the hotrod in American Graffiti....hence..Graffiti Yellow. One can find a photo of same in Duchossior's book. Along with this comes this 'best thing since sliced bread pickup'...the Gold Lace Sensor, which is touted to have all the sonic qualities of the 'vintage' single coil, without the buzz. Beck having refused the deal, it was on to Malmsteen and Clapton. Yes, there was a third player involved in discussions regarding Signature model, but that was a 7-string guitar, and not the subject of this chat. I mention it only because I expect to hear from Chromeface about on this detail. :wink: Clapton, who wanted a guitar with 'balls' had the Laces mated with a 25db midboost. Fast forward through the timeline you touched on regarding the transition to the VN's. You may recall that I had, on several occasions, queried Eldred on why Clapton switched. His reply was that they sent him a set of VN's to try and that 'he liked them'. I was always suspicious of the thing that you have given voice to...i.e... that FMIC wanted to get out from under using another maker's pickups in their guitars. I thank you for validating my hunch. Regarding the DLX's.....and this goes back to the good old sales pitch thing I alluded to at the outset. Bill Lawrence comes along and designs a 'noiseless' pickup for Fender....the SCN....which they introduced in their DLX's in '04 as John notes. Man.. I can clearly see the copy in the catalog about this new kid on the block. Once again, the best thing to come along since sliced bread...since anyone wrapped bell wire around a nail and connected it to a battery. All the sonic qualities of a 'vintage' single coil without the hum. Ufff!!! Now we have the next reincarnation of the Plus series, with the plug-in/plug-out circuits. Different strokes for different folks, but I know that you and I agree that the rich, throaty, voice of the Laces in our '89 Pewter Claptons is what rings our chimes. I know we are not the only ones in this ship's company which feel that way.

Best to the lady, and stay safe this winter.

Doc :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 12:37 pm
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Xhefri wrote:
John C wrote:
allmyguitarssuck wrote:
This thread is a lot of pages, so I apologize if I'm asking a question that's been asked a thousand times. I know someone out there's got to love these guitars enough to answer ha ha.

I know they have lace sensors and a roller nut, but what else about these guitars make them special and why don't they make anything like it anymore? Everyone I've ever heard talk about these just RAVES and if I had the cash...I'd buy my first guitar that doesn't suck and change my username. ha ha


It was probably 2 things - the Lace Sensors were kind of a love them/hate them thing, and by the end of the 1990s there were more "hate them" than "love them", so Fender terminated their deal with Lace and started developing more traditional noiseless single coils (i.e. stacked-humbucker-type) in-house.

That being said there were always people who loved the Lace Sensor models, and as everything they've had a bit of a resurgence in the past 5-6 years.

The Lace Sensor models were essentially replaced in the Fender lineup by the American Deluxe series - although there really wasn't a replacement for the Strat Ultra outside of the maple topped American Deluxes made from 2004 through 2008/2009.

Hey John, One thing about the replacement of the Lace Sensors with Fender's new noiseless. I think on this one I will differ with you on your comment: "by the end of the 1990s there were more "hate them" than "love them", so Fender terminated their deal with Lace and started developing more traditional noiseless single coils." The real reason for the change was due to Fender's most highly regarded guitars coming with pickups that were made by a company "outside" of Fender. It would only make sense that their highest-end production guitars should have their own pickups.

I did an interview with Jeff Lace, son of Don Lace, the inventor of the Lace pickups. He told me that when Lace's (EGI) exclusive contract with Fender ended in 1996, there was a push to get the signature models guitars, which were using the Laces pickups, to move to Fender's newly designed Noiseless pickups. Again, I simply think there was some turf protecting going on, so Fender decided to keep the pickups "in-house" with their own pickups and stopped promoting Lace pickups anymore (a secondary vendor) on Fender's top line guitars (AKA: Custom Shop, Strat Plus Series, Ultra, and Signature series). So it was just a matter of time before Jeff Beck and Eric Clapton Signature guitars moved over to use Fender's new Noiseless pickups. In fact, Lee Dickson, Clapton's guitar tech insisted on it for some reason and he said Clapton needed to make the change.

The question I have always had was, why would Lee Dickson insist on it? What was going on with that? Personally, and this is just my own preference, the Fender noiseless pickups are just too glassy and bright for me. I owned a 2000 DX Strat (replacement for the Strat Plus DX/Ultra guitars, in fact for a very short time the new Deluxe Strats were even called a Strat Plus, for a few short months in 1999) and kept it like 2 weeks and then sold it. I tried to liked them but just gave up. There are a lot of other pickups I like, such as DiMarzio, Seymour Duncan, etc.. which you will see me using these on custom builds on this website, but just have not been sold on the Fender Noiseless or the Vintage Noiseless—and I have had both. IMHO.


Interesting; never knew the issue with Clapton's tech (and I couldn't remember if the exclusive deal for Lace Sensors ended in 1998 or if it ended earlier). And it certainly makes sense that Fender would want their "top of the line" models to have their pickups. But I also think that they had passed the tipping point where people had swung away from the processed sound and wanted more organic tones - it would be interesting to see if the Lace model sales were still going strong or if sales had fallen off during 1995-1997.

I also agree with you - the Clapton Strats sounded better with the Laces than with the current Vintage Noiseless. The mid-boost seemed to work a lot smoother with the gold Laces.


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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 1:52 pm
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John C wrote:
I also agree with you - the Clapton Strats sounded better with the Laces than with the current Vintage Noiseless. The mid-boost seemed to work a lot smoother with the gold Laces.

;
When the DLX's were fitted with the SCN's, I had the Custom Shop build a Clapton-based Strat for me with those and the midboost circuit. The Force was strong in that one. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 1:59 pm
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ZZDoc wrote:
When the DLX's were fitted with the SCN's, I had the Custom Shop build a Clapton-based Strat for me with those and the midboost circuit.


This guitar has been sold long time ago.

Quote:
the rich, throaty, voice of the Laces


which suited Eric's slide guitar work to perfection.

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No longer used. EC abandoned the Laces as of 2010, his slide guitars were fitted with VNs shortly after Lee Dickson's departure in late 2009.


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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:20 pm
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chromeface wrote:
ZZDoc wrote:
When the DLX's were fitted with the SCN's, I had the Custom Shop build a Clapton-based Strat for me with those and the midboost circuit.


This guitar has been sold long time ago.

You had to keep teasing chromeface didn't you ZZDoc. :D

I've just finished a build with a Fender Mid Boost and used DiMarzio Area 61-58-67 Pups.

I'm really impressed with their attack response, clarity and tonal pallette. They can get a little shrill but turnin' the tone knob works wonders.

Did I mention that they're quiet, as in No Hum At All.

They actually make noisy gain/boost pedals sound better.

OK, I fall in love with ANY new set of pickups that'll have me! :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:58 pm
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danagos wrote:
You had to keep teasing chromeface didn't you ZZDoc. :D


He's our resident Clapton Foremost Authority and Photoarchivist. After nearly 7.5 years I can pretty much know when he's going to comment on something. 8) He's right about that old guitar of mine. It's been the subject of a variety of discussions on these Forums, from design to Custom Shop build times, and more. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:53 pm
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So for the most part, the line was kind of phased out based upon a shift in consumer's desires? They were under the impression that the active Lace pickups weren't really desirable anymore?

I was always under the impression that the Fender noiseless pickups were just a clone of Lace pickups, but they don't use the same design?

I personally find that I liked Clapton's tone better with the Lace pickups than how it sounds these days. I'll have to Google what model(s) Clapton is currently using to compare.


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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:46 pm
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allmyguitarssuck wrote:
So for the most part, the line was kind of phased out based upon a shift in consumer's desires? They were under the impression that the active Lace pickups weren't really desirable anymore?

I was always under the impression that the Fender noiseless pickups were just a clone of Lace pickups, but they don't use the same design?

I personally find that I liked Clapton's tone better with the Lace pickups than how it sounds these days. I'll have to Google what model(s) Clapton is currently using to compare.

The Noiseless Pickups are a different design. As mentioned I think Fender realized two things. For marketing purposes, it was simply time for a change. Lace ran it's course for some 11 years. They did continue to use Lace pickups on special orders. As John C stated, this might have been precipitated by some guitarists wanting a more purists look/tone and perhaps the new noiseless pickups by Fender met that need. IDK. Secondly, it only made sense that they have their "own" pickup in their guitars rather than an after market pickup.

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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:28 pm
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The other day I was watching TV and I saw Glen Campbell on that Jolls Holland show. He was playing a Strat Plus style guitar. It was a blue burst body, probably early 90's, it had Lace sensor pickups, but a Dually in the bridge, thr neck looked like a American Standard neck (regular nut, regular roller string trees, non-locking machine heads.

I found a video of it on youtube, but I also found another video and he's playing a regular Strat Plus in that/ Same color body, but 3 single lace Sensors, and Wilkinson Nut. Here's that video as well, he plays it the first few songs and at the end. Might be the same body in both videos with just a new neck. In the Jools Holland video the neck looks like it has a signature at the end, but can't really make out what it says. Maybe it's his? Maybe he has something like a Clapton neck on it with regular tuners? Tell me what you guys think?





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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:22 pm
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Saw the Jools Holland broadcast as well. I am of the opinion that the guitar used here was a Custom Shop baritone six.

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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:12 pm
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Glen Campbell is a smoking guitar player. I remember back in the 70s think he was just a singer then saw him on a TV program where he was playing the guitar. He ripped it up. The Guitar on the lower video (upper one did not work) is a Blue Pearl Dust (burst) with some kind of Ultra or Jeff Beck wiring. Without a good close up it is hard to know what he has going on there but I think, like ZZ said, that might be a Baritone neck slapped on there. When he plays the lead part on the lower end, it is LOW....

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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:21 am
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Xhefri wrote:
Glen Campbell is a smoking guitar player. I remember back in the 70s think he was just a singer then saw him on a TV program where he was playing the guitar. He ripped it up. The Guitar on the lower video (upper one did not work) is a Blue Pearl Dust (burst) with some kind of Ultra or Jeff Beck wiring. Without a good close up it is hard to know what he has going on there but I think, like ZZ said, that might be a Baritone neck slapped on there. When he plays the lead part on the lower end, it is LOW....

You're right, it was very low. Dug out my Wichita Lineman tab afterwards. I really liked Glen in the late 60's/70's despite my preferences for R&R/Blues.

I learned later that he was a session player in LA back in the 60's and played behind some big time names. Even a member of the Beach Boys when Brian took some time off.

Whole lotta great songs in that career. :)

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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:36 am
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danagos wrote:
I learned later that he was a session player in LA back in the 60's and played behind some big time names. Even a member of the Beach Boys when Brian took some time off.

"Tequila" by The Champs. He's on that session. Search archives of 'Premier Guitar' magazine for an interesting article on the Baritone 6, March 2014. :idea:

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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 1:57 pm
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Quote:
(upper one did not work)


yeah looks like you can't embed the video, but if you click the youtube button in the lower right hand side of the video screen you can watch it on youtube.


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Post subject: Re: Fans of Strat Plus and Strat Ultra
Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:17 am
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Hey Guys,

I was photographing my guitars the other day and I came across something that I never seen before with the Strat Plus/Ultra (potentially all starts in the 90's too). It is that the body routing seems to be more rounded on todays models vs the older Strat Plus. I thought I was going bonkers so I checked the Ultra too and compared it to my 2006 Am.Deluxe and it has different radius on the edge dimensions of the Plus/Ultra. Are my eyes playing tricks on me?? :shock: :lol: Take a look on the upper horn and compare the two pictures- to me the edges on the Deluxe seem more rounded than the Plus:

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