Ok - as someone interested in guns as well as guitars...

Vinny - can you tell me how you deduce the age of something from the patina? You have a lot of confidence in your ability to do so, and are even able to judge a 5 year difference in a 40+ year old item (from humid Asia no less!).

This skill would come in VERY handy to predict the accurate age of rifles and bayonets and such! I always thought the care/climate shown an object (wiping, oiling, humidity, etc.) played key roles, so am curious how you do it! Oh, can you share the "age of the wood" method you use too!

Thanks!

Thanks for the very rational posts, Ceri.

Once again, you have gone beyond the expected.

However, I'm afraid, it's all a losing battle. vinny's position is as follows.
While the headstock of a 1962 Strat looked like this:



The happy little counterfeiters in Manila in 1962 decided instead to make their Strat copies' headstocks look like this 1962 Jaguar headstock, changing the word "JAGUAR" to "STRATOCASTER":



In doing so, the counterfeiters beat Fender to it's own design by about 6 years. Quite the feat. Not real logical, but irrationally possible!

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Member #26797
My other guitar is a Strat.

Hello Jim with the assistance of Ceri and a few others I have dated the guitar from 62 - 68. Which covers the logo style used 62 -68 and the introduction of the fat curved stratocaster word. I can date guitars based on wood and patina and can tell the difference between sixties and seventies or eighties guitars Jim unless the guitars have been touched up resprayed. And I was correct in stating Lonely Boy was a sixties guitar and not a seventies and get this guys youll love this which will probably start more conversation here which I LOVE.
Lonely Boy IS THE ONLY GUITAR in existance with THE DESIGN of the original 1953 failed vibrato by Leo Fender. Go and have a look at all the fake seventies and eighties and ninties fakes utilising the Jazzmaster type vibrato and Lonely Boy sits on 6 rollers as described by Leo Fender and Fullerton and IS UNIQUe totally in that respect , that is the feature which made me spend 6500 and welcome to the thread Jim blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa and twaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa to you sir

More detail needed on dating objects based on wood and patina please!!
Is it scientific? Comparison methods? ???

(see post above!)

Thanks again!

Hi Orville - I just saw it as a conundrum I'd like to try my hand at. Without success!

No worries. I suspect the guitar collecting world knows how to read the signs.

Friendly greetings to all - C

Thanks again orville owner you proved my point and what I suspected and have a clearer understanding how the Asian builders thought and operated and before you posted that pic I had a feeling that they beat Fender by 6 years in the curved stratocaster design and now think that Fender got the idea from THEM. Jim I dont have any scientific methods of dating guitars just a keen eye that can differentiate certain decades of guitars but please dont start trying to test me and post pictures asking Vinny Pop to tell you how old is this as I need to hold and look at the guitar, I knew Lonely Boy was a sixties guitar because you just have to look at it HE was easy.

I didn't prove your point. I simply restated it in the clearest possible way.

If you understand the Asian mind, perhaps you also understand the female mind? I guess that belongs on another forum ...

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Member #26797
My other guitar is a Strat.

That's cool (sorry - didn't realize "jim" referred to me at 1st!)

And no worries - NO test to follow!

orville you are a gem and have just proven what I have been saying that it is a 1961/62 fake Fender copy and thats why the markings in the body read 61 the Asian builders had some pride in their work and dated in 3 places but Vinny Pop is the only one who appologises around here but thats ok as now some mud has been thrown in other places other than me. They did copy the 62 style of Jaguar exactly. Its definately a 61/62 guitar.

No worries Jim pleased to meet you and orville '' female mind me understand a female mind '' whats that about orvilleowner another forum hahahahahhahahha do you need advice on smooching a woman tell me about it, just buy her some flowers and nice chocolates.

Again, vinny, let me state that I didn't prove anything. And I saw what you did (in formulating this concept). In my line of work, it is called "testing to a foregone conclusion." I would be fired for doing it!

Here's how it went down. You wanted to believe that Lonely Boy was born in 1962. People were telling you that was impossible because the "pieces" didn't fit. I helped you gather the facts you needed to build the concept. One fact to be gathered was that the bold transition logo was used on the 1962 Jaguar, so the counterfeiters could have seen it in 1962. Similarly, the three patent numbers were used in 1962. Similarly, larger headstocks were used on the Jazzmaster and Jaguars. Finally, the curved "JAGUAR" part of the logo could be copied as "STRATOCASTER" and finally you had the facts to support the conclusion you desired. As unlikely as it may be ...

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Member #26797
My other guitar is a Strat.

Understanding the female mind is a power that all males could use.
No? Imagine how much simpler life would be ...

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Member #26797
My other guitar is a Strat.

orvilleowner your a genious and MY GUITAR ANGEL it fits like a glove on the hand of a beautiful princess. But we couldnt neglect the fact orville that people just couldnt believe that the markings of 61 on the neck body and vibrato meant anything.. why do that for nothing. I thank you and also Ceri and myself lastly for what I believe has been the GREATEST piece of investigative guitar research on a most difficult piece of history I have ever seen.

A woman will change her mind against you without warning at any moment of the day thats the first thing to be prepared about. Secondly if you are nice to a woman and sincere she will accuse you of being up to something. More to come orville stay tuned mate blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa and twaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

A woman wants security in a man either a good stable job or he has to have money, looks are second nature and not that important because if you have security money a job a degree a woman will respect that regardless of what you look like. But when it comes to a one night stand a woman will only be interested in a man with looks as they are sex hungry like most hot blooded men but after that if you havent got something to offer you are finished with her she will move on. Lieing to a woman about your means degrees or work is decietful and wrong and eventually you will be caught out. More to come................ And ps guys I know the mind of a woman as I had the record number of girl friends on a forum once 75 women friends and it was difficult but I learnt a lot from them and their habits likes dislikes and from these came 8 very close friends whom we shared everything with. And yes I was hated by other men on the forum but thats their bad luck , I wasnt stealing women from anyone they just needed a taste and buzz of contact with Vinny Pop blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa and twaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa