What was incorrect about what I wrote? I gave three well-documentable facts and a conclusion based on them:



Which fact is wrong?

How do you explain #3? I have mentioned it multiple times, but you continually ignore this "not so small" detail.

Fact #3 proves that the vet of which you spoke is wrong. There's no possible way he could have played a guitar in 1967 with a STRATOCASTER logo that Fender did not use until 1968.

_________________
Member #26797
My other guitar is a Strat.

Thankyou twelvebar the 59 - 75 relates to the length of the Vietnam war and all we have written on these blessed guitars is that they were made during the war. My ad is now perfect and who ever wants to buy it knows exactly what they are getting an OLDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD fake strat with heaps of mojo. I LOVE LONELY BOY and hate him.

Aaah, yeah, Vin these didn't permeate til later in the war. maybe alter the line, to just say they were sold during the war, and remove the questions about when the guitars started. they did go much later, but yours is defenitely from the war years, not the post war years.

I still think 69 is the most likely year, but still that's a 40 year old guitar give or take.

I have a '66 teisco. It has less patina. Orvilles legit old Strat has less.I put it down to care of the instrument Vin. I don't think you can really tell the age from that. Dirty guitars build patina.

I think you can get interest in this guitar without including any of the hard to figure out facts.

You have a few solid things to use as selling points.

Veitnam servicemen's copies are a curiosity.
They are in fact pretty old, around 40 years.
They are known, but still not exactly one on ecery corner.(I understand there are more in your neck of the woods than mine, but you are a lot closer to that part of the world.)

We jsut wanted you to keep it above the belt. your changes help do that.

_________________
I'm not an expert, but I play one on the internet.

Orville in truth I tell you the vet who served on the Australian Hobart battle ship in 1967 contacted me several days ago and stated they use to play the fake Fender exactly like mine. I have no concerns what so ever that my guitar is pre 1967. Im glad you like my new add but wont be making any further changes.

Yes niki I am a clown. Niki Jesus never told the Apostles to preach the word for money , he told them to carry no money and only accept the hospitality of people. Leviticus written from the tribe of Levi were given tithes for themselves to serve in the temple as they were allocated no land as the other 11 tribes. This 10% was given mainly in food for them and it was oredered by God that once a year all they had collected was shared with the poor at a big party. The self appointed Apostle Paul changed all the rules which were not accepted by the other chosen Apostles and there are only 12 as revelations tells us that the true Jerusalem will be built on the foundations of the 12 Apostles and this doesnt include Paul as mathias was chosen to replace Judas. The thousands of cults we now have have found a great way to feed themselves with the lies that they deserve tithes though it was only commanded by God to be paid to Levites and this is now causing many charities to suffer while unlearned people feed their churches and ministers heaps of money to live in luxury and drive fine cars. And the most damning evidence to the falseness of Paul whose letters take up half the New Testament added by the catholic Church is also in Revelations if you believe it that is where Jesus told John that the Apostles based at Ephusus are fakes and liars and that is where Paul based himself. Money corrupts ministers as it does all of us and each minister is subordinate to his cult and its understanding of the word. This is in stark contrast to what Jesus told the Apostles to do....carry no money. I give 40% of my income each month to the poor and sick and support a family of 10 living in the jungles of Fiji but I dont consider this tithes as I am 4 times above the limit God requested the Jews to pay the Levites it is my love for God and mankind.

Scriptual reference maybe?

The church of ephesius was 30,000 strong at the time of the apostle Paul, acording to biblical historians. Those ministers couldnt work a regular job as they were constantly busy with church business, yet they were to accept no money? No payment?
Vicars and priests all over the world are to not have any money ever? Simply because you've got some messed up theory on the apostle paul?

That is clown funny.

_________________
No no and no

Money corrupts the word of God Jesus never accepted money. Paul even said and admited that '' if by my lie I spread the word of God why do people judge me '' The lie he spoke of was his encounter with God the vision, in one instance he states he heard and saw no one and in the other he saw but heard no voice. He was a great hypocryte advocating no circumcision then he forces his young friend Timothy to be circumcised to gain favor with the Jews. He had no respect for James or Peter continually fighting them. They only accepted them into the flock because it was better than him persecuting them which was their mistake, but Jesus told the Apostles after he goes back to Heavan that satan would come into their midst and sift them all out......Paul

C'mon guys... this forum is Stratocaster Guitars. Lets leave it at that, what say? Guitars, girls, and world peace?

_________________
Old age and treachery will win every time over youth and enthusiasm.

"You can never have too many Tele's." A quote from my Sweetwater Sales Engineer

+1

Show me any of that in king james scripture.

_________________
No no and no

How does this keep turning into a religious debate?

that's what private messages are for.

I am a relegious historian I relish conversations with anyone as I dont do it much its ok guys lets get back to guitars, and thanks for being tollerant and ty niki for your answers and time

Peace and blessings to all and niki and hoppy forgive me. Lonely Boy is a troublesome guitar which ever way you look at it. Maybe thats why he was created to rip our hearts out and reveal the truth in us all hahahahhahahaha hes a curse not a guitar but an alien from another world intent on causing havoc. He has a few cracks on the pic guard but if I replace it am afraid he may cause me more pain lol. Lonely Boy wants to grow older gracefully and doesnt care what people think of him as long as he is played and enjoyed.

The first large headstock came out in 1959 on the Jazzmaster not the seventies.

I see the direction you are going here Vinny. It actually has some merit.

As evidenced by the bridge, these forgers weren't so focused on accuracy that they would waste left over parts. The fact that they used left over Jazzmaster bridges certainly plants the seed they may have used leftover jazzmaster necks, with the big headstock, or even just kept making them from the same templates. The logo could easily be a fake based on the font from the Jaguar.

this only shows that the guitar is from sometime later than those features were introduced by fender. this theoretically could move the timeline of the guitars a little earlier.

But you state the body has 61/62/63 markings. Some of those absolutely can't be accurate. So it shows that you can't trust the date markings. Some features are after the earliest markings claim. So it cast them all into doubt.

This leaves the problem of no one remembering these guitars before at least the mid-late 60's. This is the issue that needs to be resolved. You state someone remembers playing one in 67. this could easily be possible, but then it doesn't effectively backdate it beyond that.

I seem to remember you claiming to have contact with the original owner, in fact there is a message on your auction from someone who claims to be.

can this person verify when/where he bought it. Was this person the actual first owner?or was he just the person who sold it to the guy who sold it to you? It would seem to me, if you can contact the original owner, he could provide firsthand info, where the rest of us (both you and I included,) only can glean second and third hand info at best. His info, if verifiable would trump ours. If the vet you talked to said he played one in 67 i am inclined to believe that. But 67 is not 62 or 63.

the crux of the problem is that any date markings were put on the guitar by counterfeiters. They cannot be trusted for that reason.

This is why your current ad is so much better. They don't present such shaky evidence as rock solid gospel. The limited info i can find on these guitars suggests their being mid to late 60's.

_________________
I'm not an expert, but I play one on the internet.