I'm not an expert on Tokai copies. They are usually high quality, but of course they made guitars at a wide range of price points. The black painted truss cover dot fits a 1983 Tokai Goldstar, no?

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Shorty: the tuners on an authentic vintage '57 Strat say "Kluson Deluxe." That provide.net web site you linked to has loads of info showing how the bits and pieces changed over the classic years.

You have a nice MIJ copy. If you are a player, please enjoy it!

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My other guitar is a Strat.

It could be a goldstar or springsound neck. As far as i'm aware they changed over years and not models. I think it was just after 83 that they changed the headstock shape to the one we see now.

Incidentaly Tokai are the only 'copy' manufacturer to make it into vintage and rare's catalogue. A lefty sunburst 57. They do have a good deal of collectability. Its a shame someone ruined it with that fender sticker.

If it still had the original tokai one, i'd of made an offer for it.

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Hi Niki: I'm not sure they did. Did you read Twelvebar's post on the previous page? I think he nailed it, and there's a good possibility the guitar came with that fake decal from the factory.

As we all know, a good fake can still be a good guitar. Fender got their revenge over this stuff so on that all's well that ends well.

Play that guitar and enjoy it!

Cheers - C

I'm pretty certain they did.
I've never seen or even heard of tokai producing a fender logo'd guitar. If they did the lawsuit that didnt actualy happen but was very much threatend, would have certainly occured.

Heres a pretty concise page on early tokai's.

http://www.tokaiguitar.de/1.php?pageid=13&tplid=2

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Hmm: that's a persuasive argument, to be sure. I wonder if Twelvebar will have anything to say to that?

Deuce. (In the friendliest spirit.)

Cheers - C

Well today me and my dad opened up the guitar and it seems that its pretty much a fake..
Here are a bunch of pictures i took, hopefully you guys could maybe tell me a little more about this now?
I was unsure what to take pictures of exactly, but i took pics of what i thought was important.

First off, here is a full picture of the headstock BigJay requested earlyer:
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l266/ ... eve/guitar inside/IMG_6447.jpg


I figured rather than posting lots of images i would just put them into a public album so it is easier to view. (any problems viewing please tell me)

All picture here:
http://s98.photobucket.com/albums/l266/ ... %20inside/



Also here a few of the pictures i have comments on:


'11 = 12' Anyone know what this means? i have seen this printer on other Tokai necks, but also fender necks too.


No print or writing here..



There is very light pencil writing here, a 'U' and also what seems to be a 'J' but the J is very hard to see in person, never mind in picture.
Also not sure if this is part of the writing but between with letters under there is a dash, going down the way so it looks like this:



Here is written: '1112F0 Z'
The Z is behind the white wire and i am unsure if it is a '0' (zero) or an 'O' (letter)



Im sure in black there is printed '22 1'


If anyone could tell me anymore about this guitar i would be ever so grateful!
More info on fake fenders (with fender badge, ect.) would be real helpful!

Thank you to everyone who has posted already, you all have been a great help and i really do appreciate it!
Its just sad to know the guitar isn't really what it was thought to be.. its a pretty amazing copy, everything seems pretty accurate and it plays fantastically and feels great.

Does anyone have any idea what this guitar is even worth?

Hi shorty: this far into the future I wouldn't worry about that too much. Of course, nobody likes to buy a fake. But you're right, some of them were very high quality.

In fact, without repeating the whole whory story, Fender eventually got into bed with the companies faking their products - rather than drag them through the courts - and had them make what became Fender Japan guitars instead. This was because the Japanese were arguably making better Fenders than Fender were at the time.

Little side note. I see that you have a "shim" in that neck pocket. That little strip of veneer at the curved end of the pocket. It is there to raise that end of the neck slightly and make the strings reach the bridge at the right height. Nothing wrong with that: Fender did it for decades too. Just make sure that the shim is in exactly the same position when you put the neck back in place. It's there for a reason.

Cheers - C

Thanks Ceri, I can see why fender would have wanted these people making their guitars.. to be honest i feel its better built that half the regular fenders you can buy today, you can feel the craftsmanship when you play it.
I have never played a 57 or a 57 reissue so i cant compare.

I feel a little bad for my dad, he has it all this time not knowing the truth behind his guitar thinking it was a 57 reissue and when he searched the serial i guess he was excited that i might be an actual 57, hah! & he explained to me at the time he was so happy to own a fender.
I guess his knowledge of fender isn't so great, i guess mines isn't so much greater with identifying old guitars.
To be honest, i got a little excited when i decided to research it a little since i love Stratocasters but i did always have the feeling things were not all as the seemed since i first seen the guitar.

Hopefully one day il have enough money to collect nice Stratocasters for myself, but i can go splashing out that much right now since im only 17.
I think il stick to my two that i current personally own, hopefully those are genuine, haha!

I believe my dad payed something like £220 for the guitar, im not sure what i would have cost to buy new.
Does anyone have an idea how they would have marketed these fakes? and did they produce a lot of these?


Oh, regarding the 'Shim' i wasn't sure if it was a shim.. it was very thin, looked more like just a piece of masking tape and i hear that a 'shim' is more thicker, like the thickness of a business card.
I watched what i was doing but i may have to adjust the action of the guitar a little, there now seems to be some buzzing from the strings.


Thanks again!

The story pretty much goes that fender and gibson were so scared by what was coming out of the fujigen gakki factory that they threatend legal action. No doubt this was a ploy to manouvre the factory into a deal to produce early squire and fender japan instruments, as well as Gibsons Orville line some years later. Tokai themselves were destined to get the fender japan contract to themselves. Something happend though and fender went straight to the factory, that produced guitars for several manufacturers.

Guitars from that factory were no doubt what dan smith took back to the fullerton plant in the early 80's. Various fender employees said 'we cant build em that good'. Shortly before they closed the factory to retrain their builders.

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Agreed. I don't think Tokai ever sold counterfeits. However, there are thousands and thousands of bad decals being applied to non-Fender guitars... and every one goes on with an explicit promise from the user that they would NEVER, EVER try to sell the guitar as "real."

Until the next guy gets it.

My very first electric guitar was a Tokai "Oldies are Goldies" '64 strat copy... I do wish I hadn't sold it to get a pointy Ibanez metal stick in the early '90s. In hindsight it would have held its own with either of my current high-end strats. There's a shop down the road from me that carries a lot of lawsuit-era Japanese gear (as well as some tasty Crafted in Japan Fenders) -- it's getting more and more difficult to pass it by...

Ha! You're no doubt looking at the same book I am. A juicy quote is worth repeating: upon arrival of the first legit Japanese Reissue Strats at the Fullerton plant Dan Smith said:

Regarding the product the American plant was turning out at the time, Smith said laconically:

He estimated that around 80 percent of the Fenders sold in America between late 1984 and '86 were made in Japan. MIJ saved the company.

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I'm still curious to know whether Twelvebar was just speculating about Tokais with Fender decals on them, or if he knows something others don't...

Cheers - C

I've been on the lookout for a good springysound (which im pretty certain the OP's guitar is) for about 2 years now. I think Austrailia gets far more japanese stuff than the UK by virtue of proximity. I may have to pop round for a dink at that shop.

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£220 is a fantastic current price for them. Its a accurate price for a mid 80's 2nd hand purchase. Currently a good complete springysound is fetching between £600-900. Yours wont fetch that because of the logo. I'd expect atleast £450 for it though.

Tell your dad not to feel too bad. Knopflers first red strat (the one that he toured with when straits made it big) was also a fake. He only found out when Rudy Pensa worked on it and found out it was a schecter. Fakes are sometimes great guitars, particularly where tokai were involved.

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Nikininja: Global Vintage... a few minutes from me (pics aren't the best, but still good to look at), and Grouse Guitars... the best Aussie online store I've come across. Neil from Grouse Guitars is friendly with Glen "Rockdog" (repairs), whose views on amp myths you've linked to in the past, if memory serves.