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Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:52 pm
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zzdoc: Your "quote" attribution was in error & not mine, but mthorn00's.

Over the years, I've had a number of gripes that Leo (a non-guitar player) introduced that were dumb (to me) never 'FIXED'. The old 3-piece bridge on a Tele may work OK for the outside pairs of strings, but the jump from wound to plain in the middle (allowing for separate intonation) was always a sour pain-in-the-butt! WHY they still have them on some Teles past the 53-54 introduction of the 6 individual saddles on a Strat is beyond stupid, in my humble opinion. The Tele's pots are away from the pickups and are a simple Master Volume-Master Tone, which is (again, IMHO) better than the 2-tones on a Strat and the Volume dial so close it gets bumped a lot & THAT can change your volume setting; another pain-in-the-butt! I suppose some goof who wanted the Volume close enough to turn with his pinky is responsible for it and was too lazy to invest in a volume pedal, as used by steel players, to get the same effect.

Except for copy knock-offs, builders who don't recognize them as errors, most other high-quality guitar makers avoid &/or fix these pains and build guitars that don't need any modifications to satisfy the discriminating guitarist. Other things that bug me: Having to upgrade all my guitars to Dunlop StrapLoks, replacing standard tuners with Auto-Locks (The MANUAL twist-Locks are as much an old-hat pain as a FR locking system or a Bigsby tremolo), the old-style screw-in tremolo arm that could easily be the pop-in type and not having a Tele made with a Strat's rear comfort contour, etc. It seems to me that they invest in tooling for one course of design on an item and refuse to admit it could be improved if they changed it or fixed it. "I like it just the way it is and I don't think it needs improving or changing...." BLAH! That's a sad & lazy excuse, (one last time)... in my humble opinion.

As far as the VG is concerned, it IS a single guitar than can serve to take the place of 37 other guitars and to that end, it can be a worth-while investment for any studio &/or live performer who would other-wise need to cart around several guitars (and take time to switch) to get any of those same sounds. The two issues for most of us, besides the high price, is (or was) that the main guitar wasn't as high-end as it should have been and the battery BS was the other killer. As much as any company's innovations can be a welcome thing to the industry and their customers, certain 'fore-sights' are apparently blind to the real world, customer expectations and actual wants &/or needs of the buyers/users. I would also add the fact that the Roland system was not 'user-friendly', so the player could change some of the settings, especially on the open tunings, for personal preference(s). Locking them into what Fender decided 'most musicians wanted' was quite limiting to my view and (apparently) to too many others view(s) as well. Like the Titanic, some new design may seem like 'the best thing since sliced bread', but run aground and sink to the builder's dismay, for cutting corners where they shouldn't have. Oh well.


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Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:54 pm
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[quote="Guitarman1117"]

Some of the issues you raised with the Tele have been addressed, though likely all of them. I have no doubt that occurred due to opinions as vigorous as yours.

As far as the VG's present technology, perhaps something else is on the way which speaks to the deficiencies you cited.

For me, with a Clapton, a Gilmour, and a very serious Les Paul, this is a diversion which has the potential for some interesting application, and not the whole nine yards so to speak. One would be amiss to rely on that technology alone supporting a gig. Redundant systems are part of the game, without which, for example, Apollo 13 might have turned out much differently.

Doc :wink:


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Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 5:40 pm
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Well before it came out I thought how could this guitar miss.I thought it was a gigging players dream,and even though I did not run right out and grab one I can remember all the mags giving it awards and praise.And even with me in the middle of the most serious GAS attack I have had in 6 years and even with the opportunity to grab a mint one for 9 and change it was this post that put the breaks on it for me.I just hear to many unhappy players talking about this ax and 6 hours is way to short.If my hand was right that would mean I would have to buy batteries everyday and thats insane.Maybe they will reinvent it in a few years and get it right because I still believe it was a great idea if not ebay will still be around.


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Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 6:07 pm
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I concur, (for the most part) with your points zzdoc, yet even though you can get a Tele with six saddles, they continue to make the 3-saddle version and I still ask WHY? The only reason I can imagine (beyond those who actually want the 'old' technology, if you can call it that), is that they had so many of the 3-saddles made ahead, they need a way to get rid of them all. Then again, if they espouse 'contoured comfort' for so many of their other models, why is the Tele still an uncomfortable slab? Why leave the guitar that initiated the company to wallow in the lack of improvements given to succeeding models? How cold-hearted is that? For Shame I say! AND.... if they can make a hard-tail Strat, why not a Tele with a Strat-type tremolo? (Bigsby? YUK! Leave them to the likes of Gretsch; pa-leeeeeeease!)

Yes, I hope the 'brains' at Fender re-evaluate & re-vamp the VG to fix all (or as many as possible) of the issues that caused it to "die on the vine", so to speak. Even then, I will probably have to replace the manual twist-locks for REAL auto-lock tuners and (of course) the Dunlop StrapLoks. You'd think that any & all high-end guitars (of any brand) we take out loans (or save up a long time) to acquire would have items like Dunlops & REAL Auto-Locks pre-installed, with standard buttons included as a retro-fit for those who prefer to live on the edge and like taking the chance of having their guitar slip off the strap and hit the floor. A guitarist I work with constantly puts his guitar on with the strap twisted, ready to come undone off the common buttons and doesn't listen to me or take my advice and spend $15 for his guitar's safety, let alone looking like a dorky-goof if &/or when such a mishap or 'accident' should occur. He literally invites disaster by not even paying attention to having his strap smooth & unwound. He also plays a Custom Tele and rarely changes his strings. Evoking "Good enough for Rock & Roll" is NOT (IMHO) a PROFESSIONAL attitude. If one is going to follow Robby Krieger's (dumb) advice and use strings until they break, a half-assed way of taking such crappy advice and NOT following through to boiling the strings (like he did) is just plain lazy and stupid. Even so, boiling does NOT get rid of fret dents nor general wear. It's a great fallacy to believe that boiling your strings will make them 'come back to life, good as new'.... Bull-Duty. IMHO, he was too cheap to buy new ones and preferred to stick to his old ways that actually took a lot more effort and gleaned far less results. Then again, he may have simply said that to see how stupid some of his fans might actually be.


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Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:37 am
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There were two things that I never dug about the VG strat:

1) There is nothing like holding the real thing in your hand. If I want a tele sound..i also want the tele feel. The feel of a guitar is so important.

2) I never found the alternative tunnings useful. DADGAD and Open G are not useful to me. Drop D..big deal..i can tune down to that very easily. I never liked the accoustic sound..and again..i would rather just have a resonator than a "fake" one.


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Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:22 am
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I understand the idea that every type of guitar not only has its own sound, but its own feel as well. However, I own 5 six-strings and I wish 4 of them had the feel of the best playing one. When switching from one to another for different sounds, the different feel of each tends to throw me off my game. It takes a while to adjust to a different neck, different scale and a different weight, especially between a Strat, Parker, PRS and a Michael Kelly, let alone switching over to a Ric-12 or an actual acoustic, like an Ovation or a Martin. If the differences were any more drastic (Parker to an LP or Firebird? yike!) it would be as if you had to change your entire outfit for every song..... ala 'Weird Al' show. I believe THIS is the primary point behind having 37 sounds in 1 guitar. Live on stage, the audience gets tired between songs, waiting for the next one to begin while guitars are switched, replugged & even tune-checked. No matter that someone is talking to them, most aren't even listening, but DO tend to focus on the action to one side that's delaying things. With an axe like the VG, a quick twist of the dial and you're ready, not just between songs, but during a tune as well.

Many of the attributes and 'solutions' the VG was designed to attain, like a pill with too many side effects, its 'bark' was far worse than its bite. In the process of eliminating the need to buy, pay for & own, get cases for, care for, insure, re-string, and cart around a bunch of guitars to achieve all the various sounds, they unknowingly created problems &/or issues that kept almost everyone who loved the idea behind the intention, but hated all the hassles that came with it, from actually buying, owning and using one.

I will say this though... I felt the so-called 'fake' acoustic sounds were just as good as my Parker. Also, I own a Ric-12 and the 'fake' 12 on the Tele setting was the closest emulation (nearly perfect) that I've ever heard.

Now then: IMHO, the "design engineers" at Gibson have their brain in their butt. The latest 'innovation' of having tuners that are electronic, tune & re-tune all by themselves, involves wires that run up (inside) the neck from a cavity in the body. Well duhhhhhhhh; use Locking tuners and make the tuning adjustments between the hard-tail and the bridge. If the strings came from the back, (like a Tele) better yet. Soooooo much simpler, with shorter wires and a lot more direct, but again, these so-called 'brains' not only over-thought the solution, but out-thunk themselves to achieve it. Like unto NASA, who spent tons of money trying to design and re-engineer a pen that would work in weightless space, while the Russians gave their people a PENCIL! (Again: Duhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!) See what I mean?

IE: There are times when very smart people can be very stupid; looking so intently for an answer coming over the horizon with the dawn of sunlight, while a better solution (right under their nose) sneaks out the back door in the darkness behind them. In the musical language of our own, it's similar to the obvious difference between an amateur guitarist and a pro. The amateur can figure out a 'lick', but tends to play it in an awkward position on the neck, while the pro will play the same line much smoother and with a lot more feel in the easiest and best possible position on the neck; probably and most likely in the same place(s) &/or neck positions as it was played when originally recorded. This and chord voicing(s) can help any wanna-be guitarist make the major leap from beginner level to (at the very least) a semi-pro or 'advanced' level. It isn't whether you have the talent to do it well, it's whether you use that given talent (& smarts) to apply (your) skills and knowledge to do it right.

Sadly, many very smart people at the top don't believe they got where they are by taking advice from people at the bottom. What is stupid in that attitude is the fact that all of us at the bottom are the customers and if we aren't catered to and HEARD, the products aren't going to sell, no matter how 'smart' they are.


Last edited by Guitarman1117 on Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:23 pm
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Wow this topic still evokes alot of opinions... all very interesting :) Being one of the few that bought one before they dropped their price and discontinued it, I was not a happy camper and it did create some resentment on my part. That being said I still use the guitar.

I bought it more as a novelty than as a be all do all instrument. It has its place but it is a simulation and not the real thing. One thing it did do was convince me that I needed to go out and buy a real guitar with Humbuckers and for that I am eternally thankful because I love that new guitar. Unfortunately for Fender it wasn't one of theirs... 8)

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I'm not slow... and I'm not fast... just sort of halffast...


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Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:47 pm
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The ex... said: "If you buy another guitar, I'm leavin!" So I bought a new amp as well! hehehe :wink:


PS: The amp is fantastic. All I have to do is flip a switch to 'turn it on'.... it lights up and gets nice and warm, plus it responds to my needs and does what I want it to do. Besides, after I 'plug in', I have fun 'playing with the knobs' .... hahahaha !!! :twisted:


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Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:31 pm
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Guitarman1117 wrote:
The ex... said: "If you buy another guitar, I'm leavin!" So I bought a new amp as well! hehehe :wink:


PS: The amp is fantastic. All I have to do is flip a switch to 'turn it on'.... it lights up and gets nice and warm, plus it responds to my needs and does what I want it to do. Besides, after I 'plug in', I have fun 'playing with the knobs' .... hahahaha !!! :twisted:


my ex tried to get the divorce judge to make
me sell my eqipment - guitars/amps/effects
and she wanted half. lucky for me she was
denied.


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Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:33 pm
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Regardless of what you think about the VG strat, spend a grand for an American strat that's cheaper than an American Standard. Don't like the Roland part? Throw in a regular PG with your favorite flavor pups and off ya go!


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Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:14 pm
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Strat2004:
When we first met, I had a Gibson LP Sunburst Deluxe & my Ric 370-12 BYRD. My ex tried to learn to play guitar on the Ric and I did what I could (on my LP) to teach her. Although my efforts to help her know more of my working world (and the truest love of my life), fell on no-talent ears, she actually thought the Ric was 'hers'. She had a fit when I took back all that I personally owned BEFORE we were married. I even left a few things that I should have taken. (my furniture, etc.) Anyway, she had 'no leg to stand on' and her lawyer wouldn't even consider the idea of going for half since everything but a car was in my name; Rental lease, phone, utilities, etc. (I had moved out & her BF moved in.) All she had to do was continue to run up those bills, that I (eventually) had to pay. Actually, the car I had, she wrecked and bought one to replace it. She paid for it and then registered it in HER name, something (at the time) that didn't bother me, especially since MY car insurance would have been higher, due to MY car having been in an 'accident' and HER brand-new insurance was cheaper, being a female. Fate works in mysterious ways; I say 'fate' because no 'all-knowing entity' (or God) could possibly be THAT stupid. Just my opinion, but then this particular post isn't exactly on subject, is it? LOL


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Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:30 pm
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Great story though! :D


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Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:59 pm
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Guitarman1117 wrote:
Strat2004:
When we first met, I had a Gibson LP Sunburst Deluxe & my Ric 370-12 BYRD. My ex tried to learn to play guitar on the Ric and I did what I could (on my LP) to teach her. Although my efforts to help her know more of my working world (and the truest love of my life), fell on no-talent ears, she actually thought the Ric was 'hers'. She had a fit when I took back all that I personally owned BEFORE we were married. I even left a few things that I should have taken. (my furniture, etc.) Anyway, she had 'no leg to stand on' and her lawyer wouldn't even consider the idea of going for half since everything but a car was in my name; Rental lease, phone, utilities, etc. (I had moved out & her BF moved in.) All she had to do was continue to run up those bills, that I (eventually) had to pay. Actually, the car I had, she wrecked and bought one to replace it. She paid for it and then registered it in HER name, something (at the time) that didn't bother me, especially since MY car insurance would have been higher, due to MY car having been in an 'accident' and HER brand-new insurance was cheaper, being a female. Fate works in mysterious ways; I say 'fate' because no 'all-knowing entity' (or God) could possibly be THAT stupid. Just my opinion, but then this particular post isn't exactly on subject, is it? LOL

Victory was your's. what a fine line between love and hate.
i'm very lucky to have partial custody of one of my
children. my daughter is an adult.


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Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:42 pm
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In a weird way, I got the last laugh. During the (not quite) five years we were married, there were two boys born, one on Jan. 8th of '76 and the other on Dec. 5th of '78. They are 33 and 30 now. She originally took them to Florida (where her parents had moved to) in the fall of '87, after her BF finally had enough and kicked her out. Less than six months later, she was in trouble with the truant officer and sent them both back to me. Each on their own (the younger first) eventually went back to FL to suckle. Point is, the older is a Heavy-Metal Bassist & the younger is a Deth-Metal front man who screams his guts out while eating the mic. Both are PT w/ day jobs. Where they find places to 'perform' ? eludes me, since the wang of the US (L@@K at a map) is replete with swamp and the elderly. Oh- and I'm sure she is even more proud of them than I will ever be. LOL

PS: The youngest was a real cute kid, leaving a lot of young hotties cryin' when he left. Now he's loaded with Tats and Piercings. Mighta been (IMHO) considered reasonably 'handsome' otherwise. WWF brag with music (?) behind the lewd and vile garble; I don't know how his larynx takes it. I never espoused alcohol or drugs (heck, I don't even do coffee or tea) but I'm fairly certain they both partake. What disgusts me the most is knowing they were decent kids before they 'went south'..... and the pun really fits. I'd guess those who live there (born there?) know better & avoid getting brain-fry from too much sun. A condition, no doubt, that affects some in the SW US and parts of the Pacific.... and that's probably my only &/or best excuse for tolerating (bbrrrrrrrrr) winter here in central NY. Besides, I'm not thrilled w/ bugs here in summer; year-'round, I'd go nuts!


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Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:22 pm
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Well, I suppose all of the negative comments in this thread answers the question as to why it was discontinued.
However, I gotta tell you, I absolutely LOVE mine! I'm so glad I bought it. If the one you played doesn't sound good, check your hands, maybe that's the problem! JK!


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