Every guitar is not worth alot of money after 30 or 40 years. Trying to figuere out what will be is impossible.

As far as custom shop relics go, though, Nikininja was correct in pointing out that they mention it on the COA... also, the serial numbers all start with "R" and the body has "RELIC" stamped into the wood inside the tremolo cavity and under the pickguard. I guess that's to stop any dodginess down the track... if you had a genuine vintage piece next to a relic it would be easy to tell them apart, but on their own the relics can be quite convincing.

Yes, that was mostly my original point. Obviously if it were just from the view point of an oddity, the RW's might have some value in the future because they are a bit "odd" (to be polite about it). Good idea or not, they are certainly controversial. My issue was probably more about determining the condition of the instrument in 30 or 40 years considering they did come pre-worn.

Again comparing two vintage instruments, let's say two Strats from 1957 one of which is near mint and the other beat to hell, all other things being equal, the Strat that's in the near mint condition would be worth considerably more money. Now if someone had of taken a 1957 Strat, placed it in a hermetically sealed container then put it in a vault or time capsul or something and if it were to emerge today in perfect, brand new, show room condition, the value of said instrument would be even more...considerably more I would guess.

In this case at least, I think Twelvebar is correct in that at some point a "gold standard" will be established to compare other instruments too. Obviously these instruments are fairly well documented and with things like the internet, pictures of these guitars will probably "float around" for a great many years to come.



Ok I will admit here that I have not yet seen one of these Certificates of Authenticity but... I think it unlikely that said COA will document every last little bit of relic'ing that has been done on any said instrument. Do these COAs really list every last little scratch and chip that was intentionally put on the body? It seems that all they would really mention or prove is that "yes, this is a "relic" instrument from the Fender Custom Shop". So again the question stands, in 30 or 40 years, how would a potential collector know which scratch came from the factor and which chip came from the guitar being bumped into a mic stand at a gig in Chicago during the summer of 2009? As such, when compared with a similar instrument from the Custom Shop that has NOT been relic'd, one would tend to think the relic instrument would hold much less value comparatively speaking precisely because of this issue.

I guess another way of looking at it is this...just because a person today is stupid enough to pay -extra- to have their guitar "beat up at the factory", does this mean that a future collector is going to be equally as obtuse? Let's say that in the year 2041, guitar collector extraordinaire Jack D. Smythe III is looking at 3 historic Fender Strats. All 3 guitars came from the Fender Custom Shop in the year 2009 and all 3 have similar (nearly identical) features. One of these guitars is in near perfect condition, one has been "well played" over the years and one is a relic. If our Mr. Smythe were evaluating the value of these instruments, which would he pay the most for and which would he pay the least for? Obviously I could be wrong here and only time will tell but I would think that our good and dear hypothetical friend here would not be inclined to pay more for the relic, regardless of the COA or that "r" stamp...I would think the instrument in near mint condition would still fetch a much better price. If anything I would think that the relic and the actual worn instrument would probably have pretty similar values as the "condition" of the instrument is always such a big factor in regards to price. Sure you could identify the relic as such but all that means is that the factory beat it up instead of some owner along the way. See my point?



This is true...but only up to a certain point. If you look at virtually any Fender Strat that's in fair condition from '56, '57, '58, '59, etc., said instrument is going to be worth a fair degree of money based on collectors value. The same is certainly true of a Les Paul from that same era or most other models of Gibson or Fender from those days. The same could also be easily said of other "popular makes" such as Martin, Gretch, etc.. Instruments from the 60's are certainly gaining in value too as are some instruments from the 70's. Very simply when something becomes old enough or rare enough, if it's in decent condition, it -will- command a certain degree of collectors value. More over, items that are "in demand" but are only made in limited numbers also tend to command higher prices with future collectors. With guitars, let's look at a specific example...the first release of the Eric Clapton Signature Series. Yes, now a days, despite being a signature series, there are quite a few of those around and some day most of those will probably be worth some money BUT the first 100 or so that came off the assembly line? You can BET those are going to be worth a very pretty penny! Of course "oddities" are almost always highly prized among collectors...as other have pointed out with Studebakers. Now whether or not the ever lovely AMC Pacer will ever be a collectors item....well....we'll just have to see! LOL!!! For that matter, take a $100 Squire Bullet and put it in the hands of a future Stevie Ray Vaughn...some yet unknown superstar who will die at the peak of his career. Suddenly that $100 guitar is going to fetch A LOT of money!

Beyond that, even many "mass produced" items will retain a certain degree of value when we are talking about a brand name such as Fender. My 1996 Made in Mexico Standard Strat for example. If I were to restore it to all the original specs (or even leave it "as is") that guitar is roughly worth $300-$350 right now...go check Craigslist and Ebay. Guess what? That's what my wife paid for it! Will it be worth ten or twenty grand in 30 or 40 years? No, probably not. But I'm willing to bet we can still get that $300 back! LOL!!! When it comes to a perceived collectors value, you have to keep things in perspective.

So that said, there -are- ways to approximate if a given object will have any degree of collectors value so to say it's "impossible" is rather inaccurate at best. Sorry...I just felt the need to clarify that little absolute there.

I think the RW series might periodically gain in value. You can't entirely ignore the 'kitsch' factor. Every once and a while future generations like to mock the past, by celebrating it's cheesiest attributes.

_________________
I'm not an expert, but I play one on the internet.

Well....

I don't think it's fair to pick on wives/women exclusively with this one as there are certainly things like this that are marketed towards us guys as well. Look at the recent influx of cars that have the "aesthetics" of vintage muscle for example. Some very "retro" designs with makes such as the Ford Mustangs and Dodge Chargers for example. Sure there are probably some women who are attracted to this too...just as there's probably a few guys who like those jeans, but "muscle cars" are really aimed at the male ego...and a brand new Dodge Charger cost's A WHOLE HECK OF A LOT more than those jeans do! LOL!!! What's that old saying about the difference between men and boys and the cost of their toys? If a guy goes out and blows $40k+ on a new "retro" looking car, I'm not sure I could fault his wife for spending $160 on the jeans....as with all things, it's a perspective issue.

Of course one must also ask, how many women go out and spend $1500+ on something like a Clapton or Malmstein or Gilmore Signature Series Strat? What about a vintage Les Paul just for the sake of bragging rights? Comparatively, the $160 jeans still seem a bit more pragmatic if you think about it. Hhmmm...there's an interesting question in itself... I wonder what percentage of women have bought "Road Worn" Strats compared with the number of women who buy American Standards or Mexican Standards. Is the whole Road Worn/Relic thing predominantly just "a guy thing" as well? If that's the case, doesn't that say something about the male mentality in regards to this issue and the willingness to spend more for something already beat up just because it's a fade or because we think it looks "cool"? Hhhhmmmmmm.

Sorry there Jay...I think you're opening a really big can of worms with that one

For the most part, i think (note this is not a scientific factoid,) I think guys are more suckers for big ticket toys, whereas women get suckered in on a series of smaller purchases. jewelry being the equallizer, women love expensive jewelry, but men buy it.

_________________
I'm not an expert, but I play one on the internet.