It is currently Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:49 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 
Author Message
Post subject: trem spring arrangement
Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 4:28 pm
Offline
Roadie
Roadie

Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:17 am
Posts: 293
A new Fender start (traditional type trem), normally comes with three srings in the trm cavity. These are usually arranged parrallel to each other, one in the middle, with the remaining two going from the outside edges of the block to the outside hooks of the claw.

I've notice that many people have there springs arranged differently. The middle one the same as before, but with the outside two running from the outside holes of the block (as before), TO THE HOOKS IN THE CLAW NEXT TO THE MIDDLE HOOK. Making a sort of 'triangular' arrangement.

Could anyone tell me what the benefits of this arrangement are??


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 4:33 pm
Offline
Amateur
Amateur
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:30 pm
Posts: 193
maybe looks I use 5 springs like this

Image


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 4:33 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:47 am
Posts: 15336
Location: In a galaxy far far away
I find that all it does is increase tension without screwing the claw in. Also it lowers the amount that the springs respond to adjusting one side only of the tremclaw.

_________________
No no and no


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 5:23 pm
Offline
Roadie
Roadie

Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:17 am
Posts: 293
nikininja wrote:
I find that all it does is increase tension without screwing the claw in. Also it lowers the amount that the springs respond to adjusting one side only of the tremclaw.


Thanks


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:28 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 1:35 pm
Posts: 2303
Location: DC
I like the parallel position better so each spring has the same tension :)


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:40 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:56 pm
Posts: 3941
Location: Great White North, EH!
nikininja wrote:
I find that all it does is increase tension without screwing the claw in. Also it lowers the amount that the springs respond to adjusting one side only of the tremclaw.
this started with Hendrix. people copied him,not understanding that the reason he did the springs differently is that he installed them without tools, and his hands were too big to fit them in parallel on the outside slots, :wink:

_________________
I'm not an expert, but I play one on the internet.

Image


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:45 am
Offline
Amateur
Amateur
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:30 pm
Posts: 193
Twelvebar wrote:
nikininja wrote:
I find that all it does is increase tension without screwing the claw in. Also it lowers the amount that the springs respond to adjusting one side only of the tremclaw.
this started with Hendrix. people copied him,not understanding that the reason he did the springs differently is that he installed them without tools, and his hands were too big to fit them in parallel on the outside slots, :wink:


everytime I have seen a video of hendrix showing the back of his guit(usually to play with teeth) he had 5 springs in


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:22 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:47 am
Posts: 15336
Location: In a galaxy far far away
Twelvebar wrote:
nikininja wrote:
I find that all it does is increase tension without screwing the claw in. Also it lowers the amount that the springs respond to adjusting one side only of the tremclaw.
this started with Hendrix. people copied him,not understanding that the reason he did the springs differently is that he installed them without tools, and his hands were too big to fit them in parallel on the outside slots, :wink:


That makes perfect sense. The fact that no one ever saw the back of a strat until he started playing with his teeth fits too.

_________________
No no and no


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 7:00 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:56 pm
Posts: 3941
Location: Great White North, EH!
eyerish wrote:
Twelvebar wrote:
nikininja wrote:
I find that all it does is increase tension without screwing the claw in. Also it lowers the amount that the springs respond to adjusting one side only of the tremclaw.
this started with Hendrix. people copied him,not understanding that the reason he did the springs differently is that he installed them without tools, and his hands were too big to fit them in parallel on the outside slots, :wink:


everytime I have seen a video of hendrix showing the back of his guit(usually to play with teeth) he had 5 springs in
I've seen pictures both ways, and with 3 springs in normal parallel fitting. i think jimi did a lot of tinkering (probably while high as a kite,) so he probably changed his adjustments a lot. i would imagine him as the 'anti Eric Johnson' as far as being experimental, rather than locking into various superstitions.

looking at all the work people do to faithfully recreate his setups/paintjobs/sound kind of flies in the face of his raw unbridled energy. I love seeing where someone has spent months faithfully recreating his Monterey Strat, right down to the finest detail, worrying about getting the transition arc of the colour fade exactly right, or perfectly recreating the artwork on his 'V' perfectly, when Jimi himself (probably baked like a pie,)carelessly knocked it out in 15 minutes.

_________________
I'm not an expert, but I play one on the internet.

Image


Last edited by Twelvebar on Mon Apr 27, 2009 7:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 7:01 am
Offline
Roadie
Roadie

Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:13 am
Posts: 248
I'd highly recommend you go to this link and check out Carl's method for configuring the springs and claw.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZnQt9yiBMg
I used to use 5 springs and adjusted my trem so it would contact the body. Figured that would give me more tuning stability and if I break a string on stage, I can keep on playing without the rest of the strings going out of tune. Lots of players use this technique, going back to Buddy Holly.

Ideally, I like to "float" the trem, so it can do up bends in addition to down bends. Not that I do a lot of up bending, but when I want to put a little light trem effect on the tail end of a chord, it sounds better with a floated trem. Downside of floating trem is USUALLY a tendency for the guitar to go out of tune.

With Carl's method, the claw is at an angle. Consider that your high E,B,and G strings actually exert more pressure on the bridge than your low E,A, and D strings, having the claw on an angle allows the claw to exert equal pressure COUNTERACTING the pull of the strings. That's the theory anyway. I switched to Carl's method and now I have a floating trem AND my Strat stays WAY better than it used to. Very stable. If a string goes a little out of tune, I find that giving the trem a little up/down wiggle seems to even things out...how the strings act on the nut and bridge, and the guitar returns to good tune.

By the way, this method uses just three springs. I'm using Ernie Ball Regular Slinky 10-46 in standard tuning.

See whatcha think.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:33 am
Offline
Roadie
Roadie

Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:17 am
Posts: 293
siamese wrote:
I'd highly recommend you go to this link and check out Carl's method for configuring the springs and claw.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZnQt9yiBMg
I used to use 5 springs and adjusted my trem so it would contact the body. Figured that would give me more tuning stability and if I break a string on stage, I can keep on playing without the rest of the strings going out of tune. Lots of players use this technique, going back to Buddy Holly.

Ideally, I like to "float" the trem, so it can do up bends in addition to down bends. Not that I do a lot of up bending, but when I want to put a little light trem effect on the tail end of a chord, it sounds better with a floated trem. Downside of floating trem is USUALLY a tendency for the guitar to go out of tune.

With Carl's method, the claw is at an angle. Consider that your high E,B,and G strings actually exert more pressure on the bridge than your low E,A, and D strings, having the claw on an angle allows the claw to exert equal pressure COUNTERACTING the pull of the strings. That's the theory anyway. I switched to Carl's method and now I have a floating trem AND my Strat stays WAY better than it used to. Very stable. If a string goes a little out of tune, I find that giving the trem a little up/down wiggle seems to even things out...how the strings act on the nut and bridge, and the guitar returns to good tune.

By the way, this method uses just three springs. I'm using Ernie Ball Regular Slinky 10-46 in standard tuning.

See whatcha think.


How much claw offset would you use to counteract the higher tension of the highE, B & G strings??

What you say about the tension of the higher strings being greater than that of the wound strings makes sense. I briefly had a guitar with a slightly twisted neck, there was more reief (neck bow) on the high E side than the lowE. I spoke to a reputable tech workshop who told me that is the usual direction in which guitars twist, I was initially surprised, bu not now that you've mention the 'high' strings exert more tension. This explains the direction most twisted necks twist in!!


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:39 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:47 am
Posts: 15336
Location: In a galaxy far far away
Claw adjustment is different from string set to string set. What you need to do is angle the claw so Ami11 @ 5th fret will dip to a near perfect Abmi11 sound with the bar. Its relative to how much pullup you want on the trem.

_________________
No no and no


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: trem spring arrangement
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:23 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:51 pm
Posts: 25355
Location: Witness Protection Program
adriandavidb wrote:
A new Fender start (traditional type trem), normally comes with three srings in the trm cavity. These are usually arranged parrallel to each other, one in the middle, with the remaining two going from the outside edges of the block to the outside hooks of the claw.

I've notice that many people have there springs arranged differently. The middle one the same as before, but with the outside two running from the outside holes of the block (as before), TO THE HOOKS IN THE CLAW NEXT TO THE MIDDLE HOOK. Making a sort of 'triangular' arrangement.

Could anyone tell me what the benefits of this arrangement are??


My experience has been that some Strats stay true (in tune) better with the triangular spring setup. YMMV!

_________________
Being able to play and enjoy music is a gift that's often taken for granted.

Don't leave home without it!


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:05 pm
Offline
Amateur
Amateur
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:30 pm
Posts: 193
I just got(4/27/2009) a Brand New Squier Standard Stratocaster .(for modding) and it came with the 3 springs in a triangle. First time I ever saw that on a new one.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 5:25 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 6:39 am
Posts: 91
eyerish wrote:
I just got(4/27/2009) a Brand New Squier Standard Stratocaster .(for modding) and it came with the 3 springs in a triangle. First time I ever saw that on a new one.


The American Deluxe Fat Strat I bought in 1999 came like that new too.


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: