Maple/rosewood tone difference

nikininja · **Posted:** Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:41 am

firstrat wrote:

Nobody is responding to my post....probably too long to read, or.....whatever.

I am going to add this. When I decided to upgrade my MIJ L6S copy, I switched out the PU's, which were copies of Bill Lawrence superhumbuckers. Since it was a cheap guitar, I assumed the electronics were bad. But i used to get ok sounds from it, I just thought it could probably get better. I put in active EMG 81's and was surprized that the guitar sounded esentially the same. I had to remove a 6 position pickup selctor switch that put the stock pu's in a variety of configuations. I lost many of those tones. I won't say I was disappointed, but it was not drastic like I expected.

This means one of two things, the stock pu's and the EMG's were voiced pretty close and had similar output, or pickups only make a small difference...I don't know. But I think you just go in, play and pick what you like best

I think that at the top of the ladder there isnt much variance in pickups. VN's sound more different than anything else fender released and look at the luke warm feelings towards them.

SlapChop · **Joined:** Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:41 pm **Posts:** 1257

big Jay:

By asking "why do you like one bnetter than another?", you're on the right track. I've started my threatened thread in the Lounge about my Unified Theory of Tone, and why these debates always come up and can never be solved.

firstrat · **Joined:** Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:21 am **Posts:** 527

BigJay wrote:

Hi FirstSTrat....sorry if you feel neglected. But lord knows, if long posts were the issue, nobody would respond to me.

I did read your post about body cavities, tone, volume and output. It was well thought out and I dont really have a response except to say that your observations seem to support both lines of thought on this thread.....Body mass and resonance does affect output and......maybe its more relevant in the extreme than in small variances. If thats your point, I cant argue. To me its really all a matter of degree.

I think your more recent pickup example is also interesting, but Im not too sure how demontrable it is because, as you say, there may be more going on there than just he wood.

To you suggesting that people just need to go try them out, I'd say thats fine, except for one issue I'd demonstrate with a question. You might agree that many many guitars both sound and feel "great" or "good" or "nice", right? For me, I've not played a guitar I really disliked. But I like some better than others. So, my questions are....Why do you like one better than the other?

More specifically, what tonal qualities to do you prefer?

Your posts seem to suggest you believe that certain guitar attributes enable different tones. Does this mean you look for those attributes that help achieve your tonal goals?

How would one know what attributes enable various tonal goals?

Nah, not neglected, just surprized that no-one had a comment. My feelings are not that easily hurt... :twisted:

I prefer so many tonal properties that I can't answer that question. I have bought three new guitars in my 25 years and still own all three. To me the first thing when picking a guitar is not sound, its playability. The problem when buyig a new guitar, is that they never seem to be set up exactly how I like it, so its hard to say just with a test drive at the store.

So now what am I looking for? Well tonal properties. I was looking for something completely different when I bought my ESP from when I bought my strat. With the ESP, I wanted a big fat round tone for extreme high gain. I played Jackson, Ibanez and ESP guitars. To me it was no comparison, both the Jackson and the Ibanez sounded thin in comparison. I still love the ESP and it really delivers for the purpose I bought it for, which was metal. In addition to a fat tone, I wanted a fat but searing lead tone. I also wanted a original Floyd Rose DL system. It's still the best guitar I own, sorry Fender guys. Keep in mind I paid 50% more for it than my in 1995 than my 08 AM STD strat though.

With the strat, I wanted something that gave me what the ESP and the L6S copy didn't perform as well. Those jangly twangy cleans that fenders are known for. The strat delivers, but falls short under high gain imho (too noisy, a bit nasal and is still trying to twang).

I once heard heard a guy say that a metalhead would not know good tone if it hit him in the head. My thought is that he would know a good metal tone if an open E chord played through a cranked Marshall stack blew his house down. What is good tone for one thing is not for the other, and I do not pass judgement. A guy playing country or blues is looking for something completely different from a guy playing metal. Who is to say which is better. You have to choose the proper gear for what you are attempting to play. MY ESP has 0% twang and a country guy would hate it and overdrives most amps clean channel. Despite that it is still a great guitar for the purpose it was built.

I have seen mixed reviews on the EMG 81 pickup. Some says its thin, or lacks low end and is sterile. But under high gain, it cuts through and stays articulate. So while it may suck for some applications, it perfect for the purpose it was built, high gain metal.

So obviously guitars are built for certain applications, and everything from construction, wood and hardware play into that. Once you know what application the guitar is for it becomes easier to narrow down what guitars or what features you need. Most guitars have a degree of versatility to them, and can be used for a variety of applications, but they still seem to have a place. Just like the ESP's place is not country, the SSS strat is not metal. Can you do either with them?...sure, but one will shine over the other depending on what you are playing. There will be overlap in applications of the two guitars, both sound good at classic rock tones, but one shines on one end of the spectrum while the other shines on the opposite end of the spectrum. You just have to choose the proper tool for the job, if your music style is never on the extremes of one end or the other, you have even more options.

I expect the people that choose a guitar based on its unplugged sound and resonance, are not playing high volume high gain distortion and metal much. A guitar that shines in those conditions generally does not sound as lively at low volume and clean. The sound pressure from those condtions causes a guitar that resonates to much to vibrate and get unwanted feedback and the sound starts to get muddy imho

firstrat · **Joined:** Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:21 am **Posts:** 527

Maybe I know what I like, but it may change from one day to the next. I like extreme music on both ends of the spectrum, and lots of stuff inbetween. I am a metalhead, a classic rock fan, and I appreciate classical, blues, soul and fusion. I like some country, but an not a big fan. I play stuff that I feel like playing, but I classify myself as a rock and roll fan. You could hear me play one day, and say he is a metalhead, and the next you would think I am a late 60's and 70's classic rock fan. Most of the stuff I prefer came from the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's.

You would never know it, but in my cd player, I have Slayer, Metallica, Testament, Leonard Skynard, CCR, and Macy Gray. In the case is AC/DC, Led Zeppelin, The Who, Def Leopard (High "N" Dry), The Doors, Deep Purple, Dio (Holy Diver), Rush, Satriani, Vai and Hendrix. I even have the first Guy Mann Dude tape. Anyone remember him, he was a shredder that you would see in Guitar Mags, but you had to order his albums. I was skeptical, but he had some good stuff

Anyway, just blathering

cwpainter · **Posted:** Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:31 am

Jay,

I guess that the question is; what's it all about? For me, and I think for most, it's about getting the tone in your head to come to life. That is where my list comes in. I was not assuming a heavily processed signal. The set up of my amp is literally everything on ten with an occasional modulation effect (deja vibe!).

I wrote that to try and help people with their individual debates- to help them get the tone in their heads. So, for example if someone was choosing between two guitars that they should consider fretboard material towards the end of the list (not to not consider it at all).

cwpainter · **Posted:** Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:44 am

BigJay wrote:

Im with you, CWPainter. We see things in a similar way.....understand what tone you want and then figure out how best to get there, right?

Precisely.. And I consider myself to be very lucky in that I have done that- which is why I try to help others because I know that there are a lot of people out there still searching and spending a lot of money in the process. Cheers to tone!

nikininja · **Posted:** Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:51 am

Where i differ to that method is to select the guitar for a particular tone based on the way that guitar sounds overall. Not that it can provide the tone on its own but rather its a foundation to be built upon.

cwpainter · **Posted:** Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:54 am

nikininja wrote:

Where i differ to that method is to select the guitar for a particular tone based on the way that guitar sounds overall. Not that it can provide the tone on its own but rather its a foundation to be built upon.

-the Clapton method. Very nice.

firstrat · **Joined:** Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:21 am **Posts:** 527

cwpainter wrote:

nikininja wrote:

Where i differ to that method is to select the guitar for a particular tone based on the way that guitar sounds overall. Not that it can provide the tone on its own but rather its a foundation to be built upon.

-the Clapton method. Very nice.

I dont know man. There are so many variety of guitars out there now, I can't see a reason, other than financial reasons, that you would compromise sound and have to build on it to get what you want. There should be the perfect guitar out there, that needs no modification other than adjustments. To me, if you feel you need to build on it, its not the right guitar. Or if you are that picky, maybe order custom shop to your specs and hope they get it right. The only reason I can see that you have to build on a guitar, is that you just don't have the $$ to buy, build or have built the guitar you really want. The only other thing is if you just love to tinker, me I love to play. I bet Eric Clapton has not been to a guitar store in decades.

There is nothing you can do that has not been done-John Lennon

cwpainter · **Posted:** Thu Apr 23, 2009 11:01 am

'' I bet Eric Clapton has not been to a guitar store in decades''

A good friend of mine actually saw him in 30th St. Guitars (5 minute walk from Madison Sq Garden) a couple of hours before his show at MSG with Steve Winwood.

nikininja · **Posted:** Thu Apr 23, 2009 11:32 am

I've never heard a telecaster sound like a paf equipped lespaul. For exactly the same reason a L6 doesnt sound like a ESP KH2 or a 50's strat.

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Maple/rosewood tone difference

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