Tremolo Arm

I have copied your no' down.
Please remove it from your post with the edit button mate.

Not good to put that stuff up online.

Please email me anytime you wish.

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No no and no

That would be the Wilkinson roller nut, which I have on my '91 ultra. It's true, you'd have a hard time poking anything thicker than a .46 through there. The holes are quite narrow and the string has to pass over the two rollers: these are pins which run through the middle of the nut; I suppose there was some reason why they couldn't place them closer to the base.

I think I mentioned in one of the Plek threads here that I'd spoken to someone about getting it done (the Plek treatment, that is) and wanted to know if that roller nut would need to be accounted for in the setup process. He said no, the only trouble they had with that sort of thing was when the bearings fell out of LSR nuts. I'm sure it doesn't happen all that frequently, but might be worth bearing in mind if you happen to be a heavy-gauge player with an LSR nut wanting a Plek job. Ooh-er, that sounds quite risqué.

Hi again tremolo arm. (I'm a bit late catching up with this thread, but...)

This is awkward, because it was on my recommendation that you went to Charlie Chandler. That gentleman has infinitely more knowledge and experience than me at setting up guitars - and most other things. So I'm embarrassed about this, and yet like one or two others have to disagree with what he says as far as my personal experience goes.

I have six- and two-point trems and humbly record that I have excellent return to pitch on both types. If anything, I reckon the two-point is sightly the better. I ain't the heaviest on my whammy, but I am a vigorous string bender and - what can I tell you? No problems.

Was the guitar any better at all after Charlie's attentions?

Anyhow: if out of all this you get to meet Nikininja and have him set your guitar up then it's a story with a happy ending. Can't wait to hear how that meeting goes!

By the way, did you at least like Charlie's shop? Somewhat different than most others, and a nice chappie to chat with, to my tastes...

Good luck - C

Nice shop. Very small, but there were some very cool old guitars. There were two old CBS Strats hanging on the wall. I couldn't resist and I asked to try them (acoustically). God, were they heavy and completely lifeless in tone... But I just love that big peg head!

I didn't leave my Strat with him - he said he could "try a few things" but didn't divulge in detail as he was quite busy. He said it would be two weeks before they could set it up, so I passed.

I guess I'll be waiting for Niki to turn up and show his magic...

Same exact issue here. I have a Strat Pro, too. It stays in tune great for bending - way better than any other Strat that I have ever owned without an LSR and locking tuners.

However, use of the whammy bar - even mild use, will return at least a couple of strings sharp. Only slightly sharp - but still sharp.

I have tried every different type of lube - and at times, certrain strings would perform better, but it really didn't resolve the issus.

I bought the ferraglides, again, small improvement, but still not perfect.

I bought the Fender Super Bullets strings - again they helped a little, but still not perfect.

After all my testing, I have come to the conclusion that the problem occurs under the bridge plate where the block connects to the plate. After analyzing used strings, I can see a friction point there.

Someone mentioned a different block, but I am not sure that would eliminate the friction point.

The only thing I haven't tried, which might work, is to use 10's instead of 9's. The reason being that the higher tension on each of the individual heavier strings might be enough to prevent it from catching.

For the most part I am OK without the trem, but there are a few songs where I would really like to be able to use it.

Hey guys!

I read though this thread hoping that there would be an answer to this problem on the end of page 4 but it seems that it still remains an unsolved or even unsolvable problem.

I have an Am. Deluxe Strat with the exact same problem except that its the low E string (and also the A) that goes sharp the most when using the tremolo (bending the string brings it back again). I got the guitar back from a pro setup yesterday but they couldn't do anything either although the guitar is now set up perfectly with low action and a properly cut nut. (Only after this setup did I realize how high the nut is cut at the factory)

I'm kind of disappointed to hear that there is actually no solution to this problem. Has anyone contacted Fender about this? I'd like to know what they would say.

Cheers

I have seen more than one claim that LSR nuts do exactly what they are supposed to prevent. Strings can get hung up in them. Common sense would say that the system should work. But, like I said, people sometimes have trouble with them.

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James Burton Upgrade Telecaster
Hot Rodded Am Fat Strat Texas Special (now featuring Kinman Traditional II pickups)
Fender Blues Jr.
SWR California Blonde
Pedals Pedals Pedals

I just can't understand how Fender can sell a product like this. Ever since I bought the guitar (American Deluxe Strat), I spent most of the time adjusting the tremolo system. It is plain IMPOSSIBLE to use the tremolo bar and bend strings. Using the trem, stings go sharp. Bending the string brings it back to tune again.

The nut is properly cut and lubricated. I changed the trem block and the saddles and put it callaham parts. Even the saddles are lubricated and the holes where the strings come through the bridge plate. I've tried 2 springs, 3 springs, 4 springs and adjusting the claw. I even managed to get the E, A, D and G string stable but the B and E strings still go sharp about a quater tone when using the trem. I alos lubricated the string tree and also took the two high strings out of the string tree, just to see if the problem still exists, and it does.


I am really running out of ideas.
It seems that not even 1300 Euros will get you a decent guitar although I'm starting to think that I got a faulty model.

Does anyone here have any more suggestions?

My last option is probably to sell the guitar and just get a new one.

Here's the cause of this problem: Oftentimes, the ball bearings in these nuts tend to get pressed out of their 'perfect' roundness from the strings' inherent pressure and the pressure fluctuations caused by even the most casual use of the tremolo or even a string bend. The bearings begin to warp and take on an elliptical shape even though you can't always see this with the naked eye. Once this happens, all the string changes, tremolo setups, lubricant applications, etc, etc. in the world aren't going to solve the problem as those now deformed bearings can no longer freely spin in any truly compensatory rotation as required. The bearings now create resistance, friction, drag or whatever you want to call it because not only don't they match the shape of their respective mating pockets any longer but are now ever so slightly grinding away at these pockets too which further exacerbates the malady. In essence, the strings are hanging up the nut rather than the nut typically hanging up the strings. Lastly, consider that this system is not a locking one and will never perform like one even if it was made in totality from MIL-SPEC alloys to MIL-SPEC tolerances.

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You dig?

Hey Martian!

Thank you for the detailed explanation but I have an SSS American Deluxe which has a regular bone nut.

I am making some progress with the tuning stability, actually the E,A,D,G, and B string stay in tune very well now. The way I'm testing the tuning stability is that I first bend the string (2 semitones on the low E, A and D strings and 3 semitones on the G, B, and high E string) and then depress the the bar completely (I should say that the bridge is set to float and due to the replacement trem block from Callaham which is not angled at the back side, the bridge cannot be depressed as far as it would be possible if it were set more flat with the standard block, but it is more than enough for Pink Floyd/Gilmour style trem use and the occasional harmonic dive). As I said, all strings return to near perfect tuning (+/- 1 or 2 cents). I think the actual solution was the lubrication of the saddles.

The only problem left is the high E string, which still goes sharp by an audible amount when using the bar. Now the B and E string go through a sting tree, so I just took the E string out from underneath the tree and checked the tuning again (3 semitone bend and depressing the bar) and it did stay in perfect tune. It's quite strange because the B string uses the tree as well but still stays in tune.

Would it be a problem to just leave the high E string out of the string tree? I've noticed that the tuners are staggered (G,B and E are lower than the E, A and D tuners) and I've read that the HSS American Deluxe does not even have string trees. Maybe the angle at the nut is too steep and there is too much pressure on the string, I have no Idea. I did lubricate the string tree as well. There is also the possibility of a Graphite nut but I would have a problem with the "non-vintage" look of a black string tree on the headstock.

If I can resolve the high E tuning problem, then I can finally enjoy this instrument to its full extent!

Maybe you guys have some ideas left.

THANKS!!!

Cheers

No, not at all, especially if the open E rings clear.

Actually, it sounds like you are, "coming down the home stretch". Keep on doing what you are doing!

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You dig?

Hi guys: just a little update on this thread, since Mr Tremolo Arm doesn't appear to have been around for a while.

He and I got together with a couple of his Strats, the one with the problem at the top of the thread and another to which he has fitted a Tremsetter.

First thing: I certainly agree with him that Mr TA does indeed have a problem with the first Strat, an Am Deluxe with regular nut. We worked at it hard and it seemed clear that the problem was with the nut inhibiting "return to zero" after wammy use and string bending. The strings were not always travelling 100 percent of the way back across it after they had moved in either direction. This was particularly evident with two of the strings and we found to be caused by binding slightly in slots that were imperfectly cut.

Irritatingly, my nut files were at the other end of the country so we couldn't remedy that issue entirely: I had a cautious go at it with a folded piece of emery paper and a small improvement seemed to have been made - maybe. Soon as I can get out to where Tremolo Arm lives we plan to have another go with the proper tools. I shall also make him up a bone nut to see if that helps, and he has one of the black GraphTech nuts to try as well.

His other guitar has a Tremsetter, and this helped a lot - though at the cost of the other issues that device introduces. And the return to pitch was not perfect on that guitar either.

One thing needs to be said: some people are more sensitive to this issue than others. In this area Tremolo Arm is very much a perfectionist with an exacting ear. I'm ashamed to say his guitars' problems bothered me less than him - partly because I'm a different kind of player with a different touch. (Not better or worse, just different.)

On the other hand, I went straight home and examined my own Strats very critically and I can certainly say TA's guitars are misbehaving a lot worse than mine. So something definitely needs to be addressed: I'd love to tell you I was able to fix his problems easily... but we're not there yet.

The story continues!

Cheers - C

Hey Ceri,

did you also try lubricating the nut and saddles? It really did wonders for me.

The one thing I can say is that I sure as hell know what to look for the next time I buy a Strat!

Hi Rob: no, Tremolo Arm had seen to all of that already. He's a sharp guy and had done everything he reasonably should - which is why he was so perplexed at the guitar's continuing problem.

I think we made some progress, but I don't think we sussed it completely yet.

A difficult one - but fun!

Cheers - C