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Post subject: Strat Pro - pitch won't come back in tune even with LSR nut
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:10 am
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I purposely bought a Strat fitted with an LSR nut so that I could do some whammy work... But...

Whichever way I set the bridge, the pitch will never come back in tune even with the minimal use of the whammy. And yes, I have lubricated all points - nut, saddle and pivot points.

This is what happens: I tune to pitch, and "warm up" the strings with several bends and dive bombs. I then re-tune and the guitar would typically stay in tine if I bend, but the moment I touch the whammy bar, it comes back sharp (all strings, but particularly accentuated on the G and low E strings). If I bend all strings, the pitch returns perfect, but a slight whammy will again raise the pitch.... So the only way to stay in tune after whammy work is to bend all strings, which makes it very impracticle and defeats the purpose...

I have tried putting 2, 3 and 4 springs in the cavity, I have tried putting them parallel and angles. Tried tighening and lossening the claw screws. But none of this seems to have any effect...

Any advice?


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Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:57 am
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Is the trem claw angled. In my experience the bass side of the trem claw needs to be nearer the tremblock than the treble side. Also it could be the trem posts being worn, a common cause of floyd systems not holding tune.
Detune the guitar pull the trem back off the posts and remove the posts see if theres any kind of wear going on that the knife edge of the tremplate can get caught on. The wear will probably only be on the one side of the post. So when you put them back in make sure the other unworn side is facing the tremplate.
Theres a whole school on setting up trems i like this method by carl veheyen you need realplayer to watch it.
http://www.gitaarnet.nl/video/carlverheyen/carlverheyen-setup-hoog.ram

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Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:26 am
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What string gauge are you using?

Th LSR was designed for 9's, I believe, and I've been told it doesn't play well with larger gauges.


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Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:45 am
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SlapChop wrote:
Th LSR was designed for 9's, I believe, and I've been told it doesn't play well with larger gauges.


Now theres something i didnt know. I've been considering trying one for a while. I cant stand the elastic feel of 9's so i dont think i'll bother now.

Saved me some time and money thanks.

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Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:26 am
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nikininja wrote:
SlapChop wrote:
Th LSR was designed for 9's, I believe, and I've been told it doesn't play well with larger gauges.


Now theres something i didnt know. I've been considering trying one for a while. I cant stand the elastic feel of 9's so i dont think i'll bother now.

Saved me some time and money thanks.


"I believe" being the active phrase, niki... I may be wrong on the string gauge, but I know that the LSR tends to "hang" with string larger than it was designed for, and I think those are 9's. But maybe it was designed for 10's and I am remembering wrong.

Fender's come from the factory with 9's, do they not? Anyway, if you wanted to try one, you should do the research that i don't have time for right now.


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Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:33 am
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According to Dan Erlewine, the LSR nut will accomodate strings from gauge .008" to .056", so .009 strings don't present a problem. Here is info from his book for remedies
-Put on fresh strings
-with strings removed, tap lightly on the problem roller(s) with a sharp pointed tool(awl or scribe)
-blow out nut with compressed air
-loosen nuts mounting screws, let the strings line up naturally, and retighten nut.Often, moving it like this solves the problem. Don't overtighten screws.
-lubricate with non-oily teflon lube
Maybe one or all of these will help you


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Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:16 am
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Well, all i know is what my former guitar tech (now a partner in a guitar building biz, so i had to learn to do my own) told me. He said he usually convinced LSR users to get rid of the nut if they wanted to use heavier gauges... I have no direct experience to go on, just what he said.


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Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:16 am
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Thanks for your several suggestions guys.

Visually the nut looks perfect to me. The guiar is almost brand new, so there is no possibility of dirt being built in there.

Also, I am using 9s, so it sounds like the string gauge is perfect for the nut.

But I will follow the nut related tips anyway.

But I am guessing the issue is at the bridge. I have it floating (according to Fender specs), and with 2 springs angled at the moment. I don't know if I am hearing things, but it seems as if the issue increases and decreases in severity depending on the tightening / untightening of the pivot screws. It's just that I can't seem to find the "sweet spot"...


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Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:33 am
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Do as carl veheyen says. It doesnt sound like the nut, although dirt getting in is always a possibility. It could of gotten in before you even got the guitar.
I set my trems up that way and rarely have to tune them. I pull em out the case before rehearsall and their at concert pitch.

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Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:46 am
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Thank you

I will try the inspection of the posts.

Speaking of wear, is it only wear on thr posts that can cause the problem? What bout the actual knife edges of the bridge plate? COuld they wear out or does that not matter for an accurate whammy operation?


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Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:17 am
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Knife edges tend to round off, mainly through worn posts. Its unlikely that given that the guitar is new. I think its more down to claw balance or the nut.

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Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:26 am
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nikininja wrote:
Is the trem claw angled. In my experience the bass side of the trem claw needs to be nearer the tremblock than the treble side. Also it could be the trem posts being worn, a common cause of floyd systems not holding tune.


So let me get this right - are you saying that the claw should be angled, so that the screw on the bass side is more screws in? What should be the difference roughly?

Would that not cause an uneven stretching of the two springs? Or is this the desired effect?

Also, would you angle the springs (in a V shape) or have them parallel?


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Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:41 am
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Anything weird going on with the saddles? Mine were a mess from the factory. They are supposed to be parallel to the bridge plate. If they are angled, I could see the string slipping on the saddle a bit. It might be going from a low side to a high side causing it to go sharp. I have to think it's something with the nut or saddles. I would not expect floyd like stability no matter what you do though

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Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:46 am
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Springs in a V do make a difference you cant use the screws to equal the tension of the strings out properly. If you watch the link i provided its all in there how to balance the trem out.

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Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:52 am
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nikininja wrote:
Springs in a V do make a difference you cant use the screws to equal the tension of the strings out properly. If you watch the link i provided its all in there how to balance the trem out.


So you are saying the strings should be parallel, right?

I wish I could watch the link but I get a message "You can't view Media files"...


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