Most of my time behind a console has been out in the field. I have mostly done live sound. Early on in my career I studied some books and took a class at Criteria Studios in Miami. I worked for and then ran a studio call Musicians Studio Rentals in the late 70's. I was taught by an engineer that worked with Journey and Toto. I worked with a guy name Jerry Cameron who was the owner of one of the first big sound companies in America. He did the first ZZ Top tours.
I did live sound with a company call Off the Wall Sound as an engineer. I worked with many knowledgeable engineers from the University of Miami's Engineering school. They would intern with our company. So I would give them lessons in the real world and they would teach me a few tricks. I guess you could call it the school of Really Hard Knocks.
When you do live sound you never know what kind of nightmare you are going to run into. I've had so many "Lessons" in Acoustical Physics. I've even tried to educate some of the musicians I've worked with. Here are a few problems. Low roofs, Mirrored walls, Shoe box shaped rooms with EVERYTHING reflective, Cowboy hats(Monitor headache) the list is endless. Most of these problems are from shows done inside venues.
We had a bad problem with a symphony Orchestra outside. We had some run away low end feedback. It wasn't until the next time we did the same orchestra that I figured it out. They liked to use these large fiberglass gobos because they "looked good". I accidentally struck one while setting up. I recognized the frequency. I did a drum roll on it and all the others rumbled with the same tone. It was a case of sympathetic vibrations. I tried to explain to the orchestras people that we should not use them. I even demonstrated the effect. They told me to "just fix it". I explained that was impossible. I finally talked them out of using them.
The solutions become inventive and funny sometimes. I've used table cloths to deaden reflective sound. We have hung curtains from the roof. I have taken out roof tiles above the stage in clubs. Sometimes you have to try and change the acoustics of the room. We even had to thrown(very scary) half the PA out of phase. It worked! Thats all that matters when the show must go on. Sometimes an instrument needs to be phase shifted but VERY rarely.
The list is endless. I don't have any newer books. But you might be able to find Modern Recording Techniques By Robert E. Runstein. It is a 35 year old book. There must be a newer version or something like it. It is a basic book. Maybe some one out there has a good book to recommend.
Scott

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Don't let the mean people win!

but, more important... why is this in the Strat forum?[/quote]

Because I had not seen recording Q's in the lounge and I don't get a lot of hits in the lounge either. besides people who play quite often record so I tried here. Alot of great suggestions people,keep them coming. I agree with the room making such a difference I have recorded in a lot of different places over the years(since the 70s as well) and sometimes the results are astoundind in their difference. I like the Yamahas and Tannoys but a bit too rich for me I am a hobbyist truly as I have not gigged since the last paid gig in December of 1988(a company christmas party,man those private gigs used pay like a broken slot machine) I record now for self amusement and to annoy my kids by playing something that doesn't have hip hop in it.(my kids are 28 and 22) I used to use reel to reel and multi-track cassette(still have and use Tascam cassette stuff) and I have somewhere an 8 track that uses VHS. Speaking of 8 track I have somewhere and old 8 track recorder that used the 8 track blanks.it was kinda fun but OH so noisey.Thanks for all the info I keep learng something new everyday

Hmm, OK. Well then names such as Edirol, Samson and (previously mentioned) Behringer are the ones to look at. I'm studying an admittedly somewhat out of date copy of the catalog Turnkey used to send out and finding Edirol active nearfields such as their MA7A for €65, or the MA15D model rated at 15 watts for €105: both of those prices per pair.

I think that's about as affordable as you're going to find - unless you go for computer type speakers. I have a little pair of Creative T20 active speakers on a computer and as far as they go they are perfectly adequate.

Wouldn't want to mix an album on 'em, though!!

Frankly, when you get down to that level, I'd have thought a nice pair of Beyer DT-100 headphones would yield better results for the money...

Or have you thought of liberating some old hi-fi speakers from somewhere? I'd rate my 30 year old Wharfedales far above budget monitors: easy to pick up that sort of thing for pennies...

Cheers - C

Everyone has there choice in speakers. No matter what speakers you use they must be as flat as possible. That is the only way of knowing that you have captured the true sound. Any EQ on an instrument is added at mix down. Not during the recording of the track. This is because when you play back your mix on someone else system it has to sound good. It can't be colored in any way until the final mix down.
I have had people come up to me at concerts and complain that the CD I'm playing doesn't sound right. This is because the system they normally listen to is probably screwed up. Just like the symphony orchestra gurus that think our mix is too loud. They have no idea that an orchestra is capible of 120 db. Most people have never heard a flat system. They would be surprised at what they have been missing. A lot of layers get lost in a muddy mix.
You guitar players work real hard to get that "sound" you want. Don't you want it captured correctly. You want it to sound like you not someone else. It is always helpful if a muscian understands the process. But don't be like a drumer we worked with one time.
We were setting up his monitor mix and he thought we didn't know what we were doing. He came over to the monitor position and demanded to know which EQ was for his mix. We pointed it out to him. He proceeded to make that S curve with the faders you see in advertisements. We said OK and he went back to his kit. We turned it on. The mix went crazy. We laughed our asses off. We asked him if it was OK. He didn't say anything. We asked him if we could fix it now. He agreed.
Then there was the Famous group with the monitor board with the faders glued into place. He wanted us to open all our amp racks and adjust or horn levels so they would match his board. Say What? Group was P, P and M. Some of you will figure it out. My boss started to argue with them. They demanded we fire him. So we did. Our lighting guy fired him. It was pretty funny.

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Live sound and studio sound/recording are often different beasts. The goal, which is great sound, is the same. You twist most of the same knobs in either case. But room size, speaker size, and even a full house/empty house make the two senarios very different in approach.

Recording monitors are mostly NOT flat. Speaker specs on paper will suggest they are, or that they are close to flat, but none are truly flat. They all have their own characteristics that the mix engineer learns through constant, repeated use. Those characteristics attributed to certain monitors are sometimes highly sought after, and sometimes avoided depending on the situation. For instance, headphones are typically hyped in either the bass range or the high end to make the listening experience more pleasureable. And that's the very reason why they are not prefered for mixing- they aren't telling you the truth about what the audio actually sounds like without the hype. Cheap monitors often suffer the same problems- hyped low, mids, or highs, making them a challenge too. Computer speakers have the same shortcommings. Stereo speakers, even expensive awesome ones, make great listening speakers but are often not the best recording monitors. Expensive recording monitors have their characteristics too and some prefer them, and some don't. You can find awesome monitors out there for 3 grand [for just one of the pair!] and WAY more expensive and for every one of them, they'll have respected professionals disagree about how good they are or why they don't like them. It's a very personal desicion.

What evens the playing field is room acoustics. Even then, it's impossible and not even practical to try and get a perfect acoustic response out of your room. But when you improve it, you begin to really hear what your monitors are telling you, be it good or bad. That's why it's important to make a monitor purchase two fold- room acoustic treatment and the monitors. And you don't have to create Abby Road. Just something to help the situation. If you record in your bedroom, garage, etc, you likely have nothing. So every little bit towards treating the room will at least be an improvement over nothing at all.

We guitar players live by our tone. Tone, tone, tone. Our guitars and our amps slant us towards our tone. When recording, the monitors help us decide if our tone is right or not. Contrary to what is said a lot, you should get your tone ON THE WAY TO TAPE, not after the fact during mixing. You may need some adjustment in the mix, when mixing the guitar in with other instruments. But get your sounds up front, as opposed to trying to make them sound good after the fact. That's unnecessary fixing. It's difficult to get an accurate reading wih headphones and such. Not impossible, but difficult. That's why studio monitors are preferred.

The good news is that there are good monitors out there for fairly short bucks that do a great job for many levels of recordists. I mention the Behringers because I have experience with them, and in fact they are a great choice to step up into studio monitors for short bucks. They can take you very far in your recording projects and needs. At a certain point, you certainly could want better monitors and then you upgrade. But for entry level, up to moderate level, they are very good.

And one last thing. What I've come to realize, for what it's worth, is that the truth is ANY monitor can work for you. Even headphones and computer speakers. It comes down to knowing them extremely well. Knowing how they are slanted and what they sound like, which will make you make desicions about your sound on them, and which will affect how those desicions make your mix sound like on OTHER playback systems. The worse the speaker, the longer the learning curve. The worse your room acoustics, the longer the learning curve. The better all that is, the shorter the learning curve.

And what does the learning curve involve? The back and forth to your car stereo for a listen, of course! When it sounds great there, you're onto something!

Sorry for the long post. It's raining and I've nothing better to do but type today!

Dan

Wow, I wish one of you fellas had been on the desk last time I went to a Rolling Stones gig. The sound was so appalling you could only tell which number was being played by lip-reading Jagger on the big screen...

Anyhow. Gentlemen, this is all excellent stuff. However, the OP Mr eyerish is not building a studio or mixing an album. He merely wants to playback tracks from his digital recorder on the most affordable speakers he can find, and needs makes and model numbers in sub $200 territory.

Way below your paygrade, but any suggestions?

Cheers - C

You may want to look at a Vox JamVox I copied this Info:
Cost around 250.00

The Vox JamVOX is an integrated monitor and software system that extracts the guitar from any MP3 and plugs you into the mix of your favorite bands. Create instant jam tracks from any song and best of all, you play lead guitar backed by the original band members.

JamVOX gives guitarists instant access to dozens of legendary amps and effects all in one easy to use "drag and drop" software interface. Revolutionary Guitar XTracktion (GXT) technology lets you remove the guitar part of your favorite songs with the push of a button. Alternatively, you can extract or isolate the guitar part, slow down the tempo on the backing track, and practice any style of music without changing the pitch.

The Vox JamVOX practice tool includes authentic software models, or recreations, of 19 famous guitar amps and 54 vintage and modern effects, so you'll be able to perfectly reproduce the sounds of your favorite guitarists. It also comes with a dedicated full-range USB monitor speaker, so there's no need for complex wiring or any specialized knowledge of computer music. A two-CD 28-song bundle of guitar play-along tracks of famous songs, courtesy of Hal Leonard Corporation, is also included.

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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

Thomas Jefferson

I dunno, Ceri... I have to respectfully disagree as to the quality of this information.

I make music and produce audio for a living. For 30 years, I've worked in sound studios and post rooms from California to Chicago, on stages with big bands and rock bands, with stage managers who ran huge European tours and live-video directors at the network sports level. And my experience is this:

When a real pro is asked a simple question, he answers it... he doesn't start throwing a bunch of unrelated egghead terminology around. "Live end/dead end." He needs to know this why?

The guy just wants to know what he can buy for 2 bills that doesn't completely suck. He's probably never going to monitor loud enough to even bring the room into the equation (that's the whole point of near-fields). No reason to go all Fletcher-Munson on him.

Here are three good pieces of advice for the OP:

1. Check your local Craigslist for used gear. Tons of guys buy home studios., try for three months and give up. You can get their Events or Tannoys for half what they paid or less. ANd they'll be barely used.

2. Take a CD you know real well down to Guitar Center (or someplace else if you live in a really big town) and listen to some boxes in your price range. Buy the ones you like.

3. Don't buy anything that says "Behringer" on it, ever. Oh, sure, the monitors aren't half bad, but then that will convince you to buy one of their rack-mount compressors, or a mixer, and you'll never know how bad it sucks until one day a friend lets you borrow a REAL compressor or mixer, and when you use his unit instead of yours you suddenly wonder where all the ugly noise went.

M-Audio and KRK make boxes close to 200 bucks new that sound about the same to me. I don't like the Alesis monitors in this range, but maybe you will. But a used pair of Events or Tannoys will crush them.

[Chuckling quietly] But then you have a less, um, conciliatory style than I try towards.

I've just been re-reading Mr tennman316's weird thread about his trussrod - all that stuff about human bone nuts and such. Very much enjoyed your contributions on that one...

As to the above, I've had certain experiences of speakers and symphony orchestras that are much at odds with some of what's been written here. But it's manifestly obvious these gentlemen have vastly more knowledge of the field than me, so I'll keep my council...

- C

I have been schooled on style. Very smoove, Mistah C.

As far as conciliation, you should seen the first draft. I'm learning to chill.

Haha!

You've sometimes caused me a sharp intake of breath with your "no nonsense" approach. But a lot more often I find myself grinning with pleasure at seeing things said some of the rest of us are too shrinking-violet-ish to speak out loud.

Sometimes we just need someone around who's prepared to cut through the ....

Cheers man - C

HAHA! See what I mean about the Behringer rep? LOL! Ive been in a LOT of studios, from the big boys to the small ones. You know what? They all have SOMETHING behringer! LOL! But to be fair, in the large studios it's never the monitors. Say what you will, but don't count the behringers out. You can do a LOT worse in the inexpensive category. A lot worse. Do as suggested. Bring a cd you know and love well, and check them all out. I'd usually suggest that that is the wrong approach for choosing monitors, but given the situation it's fine. Good luck to you.

Dan

No serious music producer uses Behringer processors. Not because of their "rep," but because of the reality, which is that they suck. A friend of mine tried to unload a Behringer Composer (the illegal copy of a dbx 166), and it was SO bad, it actually affected the channel in BYPASS mode. In action, it pumped and wheezed... the VCA's were so cheap you could not get a useful setting from it.

The worst studio I ever worked in had big Genelec monitors that cost thousands... they also ran a Mackie console and a rack filled with Behringer outboard (I was in from out of town and booked the joint on the recommendation of a friend). The resulting tracks were unusable in the show, and I end up going back to Arizona to fix them in another place.

So, LOL if you must, but Behringer stinks. I can't imagine how you could do worse. Maybe something by Fisher-Price?

(Nothing personal, dude, I'm relaying my experience.)

Point taken. And I agree for the most part about Behringer. But I must ask you- have you ever used Behringer Truth monitors? Ever mixed on them? Ever heard them at all? Is your opinion an overall one about Behringer, or specific to their monitors? It's easy to jump on the bash band wagon, but berry makes a ton of stuff. Surely you've used a cheap piece that surprised you in it's usefulness, along the way. The Behringers are surprising in that they aren't total crap. You can actually mix with them and come out ok. But that too is only my opinion. It's up to the OP to investigate what will best work for their situation.

I was just at GC today and was checking out Adam A7's. THAT'S a monitor that is calling my name. I'll have them before long. But even them- there's a ton of people that insist they suck as well. But not to me. It's a personal thing, but perhaps the best advise I'll offer in closing, is that you should get the best monitor you can afford. Cheap is cheap- cheap is expensive. Saving for the good stuff is always prefered.

Dan

I have used the TRUTH monitors in the past and thought they were not bad for the money. A lot has to do with the circumstance you are in to determine what will work for you.

_________________
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

Thomas Jefferson