Me too. We're the same age and while my influences have always been the same, my style has definitely changed from the Van Halen/Vai school, to the Beck/Gilmour school. That's not to say I don't like to tear it up once in a while just to keep those chops up to par too

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The mind is like a parachute; it doesn't work unless its open-FZ

It's funny you mention personal styles changing over time. I've been playing with my band -- well, duo; it's just two guitar players -- and began more or less as an acoustic rhythm player. Over the past year or so our music has dramatically branched out with the addition of a third guy, playing bass, and I've more or less become the lead player. It's meant going to school in a serious way. Oh well though, I'm happy to learn and now I get to play my Tele at every gig!

+1 and +2

CC

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Fender Stratocaster (parts build)
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Sell you soul to the Devil but remember theres no returns.

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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

Thomas Jefferson

How do you know that? Hmmm?

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Member #26797
My other guitar is a Strat.

Exactly. Eugene won at cuttin' heads. Willy Brown goes free.

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-Kc
"Payin' dues."

Hmmm...I understand the logic here but I think I disagree with it. I'm one of the "older guys"...I'm 43 and I've been playing for over 25 years now. I play mostly by ear but I've been exposed to many different styles of "learning" over the years.

Now before I get into that let me say first and foremost and directly in regards to "stealing licks" goes, very simply there is nothing new in music or guitar leads that hasn't been around one way or another for MANY years. Most modern music...or at least a lot of it, is loosely based on the minor pentatonic scale...and let's face it, there's only so many different ways you can play those 5 notes! LOL!!! Just as an example, listen to guys like Eric Clapton and Eric Johnson then go listen to some old Robert Johnson...the stuffs all still there. Faster, electric, different personal styles, but all of the basics are the same. In other words, virtually all guitarists and dare I say most musicians in general are in fact "copy cats" to one degree or another.

Certainly you can "just see a video and copy it" -but- the same is true of any other way of learning. If you have a good and well developed ear, you can just listen to the tune and copy it. You can buy the sheet music or look up the tab and just copy it. Tribute bands for example have been around for -many- years...long before Youtube, and that's all they do is just copy it. In this case, it's up to the individual to take it beyond that...if they choose.

Now going back to learning...in my very earliest years on guitar I had been taught sheet music via the "Sam Fox Modern Guitar Method" and of course, later Mel Bay. Later in my teens when I picked the guitar up again I was lucky enough to get a teacher who simply taught me a pentatonic minor scale, gave me a 4 track version of Clapton's "Cocain" that he had recorded for me (without the lead of course...what they call "jam tracks" now a days), taught me a few bar chords and I was on my way. Now a days of course, sheet music has been replaced by "tab", teachers have been replaced by "Youtube", etc., etc.. Very simply to be a well rounded musician I think you need to have a well rounded education in regards to the music that you play. For example, I've worked with a lot of horn players who the moment you take the sheet music away from them, their fingers stop moving...they can't play -at all- without the sheet music in front of them (or without having memorized it ahead of time). For some folks this is all they really need but...in my case at least, it really drives me nuts! I don't often do covers "note for note" and the people who work with me really need to know how to improvise.

I think the same thing is true of this in regards to Youtube...if -all- a person learns comes strictly from Youtube then yes what Bettencort said is true to a degree. However for many (including myself) Youtube can be a wonderful resource just as tab and sheet music is...in other words, it should be a beginning to understanding and not the whole of understanding. If a person plays long enough regardless of how they learned, certain things start to become evident..you start to recognize chord patterns such as a I-IV-V for example.

I would also add that cover tunes aren't the only lessons to be found on Youtube. A person can also learn scales, modes, chords, styles and a great many other things that can enhance their playing...again -if- they choose to do so.

I think that everyone has to start somewhere. Whether it's with sheet music, playing by ear or watching vids on Youtube. It's simply a matter of understanding that any one of those resources isn't the end all, be all of learning to play. For these kids who are playing stuff from Youtube, who know's where they'll be in another 20 years...they'll probably be a hell of a lot better than I am now! LOL! However it also must be said that with any instrument you have folks that simply play what others have written and then you have those who would rather do things their own way.

Ok...over-tired again here and having trouble putting this into words. I hope that made some sense.

L8r,
Jim

You have to look at the guitar as a Lamia with a callipygian and it's a banausic instrument and as you play you will go into a inanition feeling of being. Well I don't want to get pleonasm here.

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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

Thomas Jefferson

I don't think we disagree all that much. I'm with you all the way.

I was just kinda making the point that when you hear a guy play, its better to have a crowd say, "Man that was interesting, a unique twist and style added to the same old rock/blues guitar" rather than "This guys the next so-n-so."

Kinda get me? There's a big difference in the way people improv for sure.

Like for example, in a live situation. I've never played a song the same way twice. You know what I mean. Each solo is different, it comes out, its creating. Though it's been done before, when you're playing you're singing. You're voicing, rather than repeating. Even though the book of Ecclesiastes out of the Bible says there's nothing new under the sun, which is true, there's still something unique and original about the way you express the same old same old.

I make sense to me. Maybe I'm missing something.

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-Kc
"Payin' dues."

Penatonic Scales, Bar Chords, and most importantly....working on the skill with your picking hand, not your other hand.

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Gear:
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I completely agree with you. Just to clarify my earlier post which incited your reply, I'd like to make it clear that I was referring specifically to "stealing" as opposed to "copying in your own style." It is one things to see a cool lick on YouTube -- or anywhere, for that matter -- and try to play it. It is quite different to attempt to play said hook exactly the way you heard it. One is interpretation, and an excellent way to hone your chops and have some fun; the other is a useless exercise that will end in frustration -- really, who can play Clapton better than Clapton?

I understand that you simply made a clarification here, but I think it's worth noting that there is a clear difference between "stealing" and what you refer to as "copying": one is useful, one is not. And yes, we all work with the same chords and scales; overlap, as you said, is impossible to avoid. Nevertheless, it is vital that each player develop his own style rather than attempt to "play guitar like Eric Johnson." I suppose that to be able to play like Eric Johnson is a wonderful goal. On the other hand, does the world really need another Eric Johnson clone? Inspiration, fine; copying, not so much.

heh... that last post reminds me...

I really got into Eric Johnson's playing when Tones came out in the mid '80s and there was that "Who is Eric Johnson and Why is he on Our Cover?" issue of Guitar Player. I came across a cassette (remember those?) in a record store (remember those?) in the city and pretty much wore it out over the next few months at home.

I never thought to try and learn any of it at the time... i just enjoyed listening. I was more into working out fingerstyle jazz stuff in those days anyway.

I got out of electric playing almost entirely after about '94, although I always kept my ultra thinking I'd be getting back into it one of these days (that day came at the beginning of this year, I'm happy to say).

Sometime over the past few months I checked out what was on offer on youtube... looking for all the guys I was into back then and seeing where they were at. EJ seemed the same as ever! It was quite bizarre. He's not really aged much considering. Anyway, I noticed that there were quite a few tribute versions of his songs, usually Cliffs of Dover. Man, there are quite a few players out there who've nailed that one, hey?

So then I checked out some of his instructional material... fascinating stuff. But... anyone out there really know what he's on about with his style of picking "up" somewhat like a pedal steel player? Well... OK, I get the principle, but if what he's saying is that he works hard at minimising the attack of his strokes so that his lines have a more legato quality... that's some pretty serious work right there... and when he starts out with a good 10 minutes devoted to the manner in which he likes to tune a guitar in order to maintain an approximation of equal temperament... Phew. I kind of think he lost all the EJ wannabees at that point.

So, this is just my lengthy agreement... to play as well as EJ is a worthy lifelong goal. To just play a couple of songs of his as fast as he does and pronounce yourself "done" is a party trick. A trick I wouldn't mind performing, actually, but I do have other fish to fry when it comes to the guitar..!

I agree with most of that but there are exceptions. Yea...some tunes I just fly by the seat of my pants and am only inspired by "the moment", but as predominately a cover rock musician I do think there are times where the lead (or other parts of the tune) are rather signature parts of the tune itself. Let's take the first lead in Pink Floyd's "Comfortably Numb" for example. That first lead is a very signature part of that tune..if you just play off the hook, it really doesn't sound right. The second lead, sure...you can rip until your face is blue but the first lead really needs to be quite similar to what Gilmore plays for the integrity of the tune otherwise it just doesn't sound right. The intro lead to Floyd's "Wish You Were Here" is the same way (yea...I'm a big Floyd/Gilmore fan). So in that regard, Youtube can be a great commodity in that it can help you learn stuff like that a little easier when you're in a band situation. Another example (which I recently sat down with Youtube myself to learn) is that opening riffs from BTO's "Taking Care of Business". Again here we have a tune where some of the lead work is quite signature to the tune where other parts can be done on the fly.

I also think there's some "in between" stuff too. Take SRV for example...if you can get that SRV shuffle and feel, you don't really need to play most of the stuff note for note. There are some signature SRV riffs and such, but in this case it's more about the feel.

In most cases, I agree with you in that instead of having people say "He (they) sound just like so and so", I'd much rather have people leave our shows saying "Wow...I -LOVE their version of that Fleetwood Mac tune Rhiannon". I use that tunes specifically because we do rather have our own arrangment of that and with the last incarnation of the band we used to have people who came to our shows just to hear us play "Rhiannon". Another great example is we used to do that old Peter Gunn theme. Here was a tune that we (the band as a whole) -NEVER- did the same way twice. We very much played this tune by the seat of our pants! The only sense of arrangement we had was everyone giving everyone a quick glance when we were ready to go into a break. Even here though, there is that signature part of the tune...that opening drum beat and bass line and the initial lead...without those basic elements, it's simply not "Peter Gunn".

In other words, I'd much rather have my playing and my band as a whole identified for my own/our own sound as apposed to sounding like any kind of specific tribute but there are some key elements that typically have to be acknowledged when you're playing covers (IMHO at least).

L8r

kevin and the other guys are pretty dead on.
john mayer plays awesome but he emulates, if you listen to where the light is who did you think i was intro to the solo portion, he totally does power of soul riff, so do other players.
however, if you havent learned the scales, at least the maj, min pentatonic. they will be a good start point.

Thanks Bluestratone.

And Lomitus, I agree with the cover artists. If you're doing a tribute, nail that sucker on the head, especially in the more difficult cases. I remember in one of my first bands, we did our own version of "Sweet Home Louisiana." Our bass player was from the deep south and his parents came to our gig and we wanted to suprise them. It was pretty hilarious, and even though it was almost a parody, our vocal harmonies stole the show. Fun stuff.

The only thing I would add to being a cover band, is to not make it all that you're about. (not you exclusively, but to all who love covers)

I think we're all on the same page now.

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-Kc
"Payin' dues."