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Post subject: Fender should be able to solve the economic problems
Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 4:28 pm
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I know there have been a million threads about the price increases, but Ive still not heard a real reason. Most people are saying "it must be because the price of components have gone up". Yeah, right, that's it. The whole planet is in a state deflation, EVERYTHING is dropping in price and value. But Fender guitars have made a product that is worth 20-40% more than last year. They have to be kidding. They've figured out how to beat the downward falling economy. Why hasnt the Fed gotten them to figure out how to pull us out, they obviously have figured out how to cast spells to allow them to charge much more when everyone else has beg for business.


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Post subject: Re: Fender should give economic help to the rest of the worl
Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 4:34 pm
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windwalker9649 wrote:
I know there have been a million threads about the price increases, but Ive still not heard a real reason ...

How about this one? There has not been any price increase for over five years. It was likely established long ago in the their product-marketing road map to hold prices fixed for many years (instead of small yearly increases). Then enact a singular culmative large price increase at the end. This strategy was likely planned out many years ago, and would have occured economy or no economy.

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Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 4:42 pm
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A number of manufacturers have had price increases this year, Gibson among them. I just think in the case of Gibson it wasn't as noticed as their prices have been quite astronomical for a while :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Fender should give economic help to the rest of the worl
Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 4:49 pm
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01GT eibach wrote:
windwalker9649 wrote:
I know there have been a million threads about the price increases, but Ive still not heard a real reason ...

How about this one? There has not been any price increase for over five years. It was likely established long ago in the their product-marketing road map to hold prices fixed for many years (instead of small yearly increases). Then enact a singular culmative large price increase at the end. This strategy was likely planned out many years ago, and would have occured economy or no economy.


Yeah right on. That's great business. Lets keep it the same price for a couple years (ive seen ads in guitar magazines from04 with prices lower than they were last year, like highway 1s at under $600), and then we'll jack them up 40% How exactly would that work for them?? I dont understand all the fender players that are defending a ravenous price increase like they work for them. Ive been in retail/wholesale buisiness for 11 years, and ive never heard of holding prices for 5 years, then raising them at an undefendable amount, when everything else is dropping, especially if you're selling a non-essential. I dont get it. And raw materials have had the bottom dropped out, so saying that wood, metal, etc prices have gone up is just not true, the values have plummeted. Even if they bought it on the future market when they were high, they'd be able to get them on the cheap and balance it out. I understand that things go up in price, but Ive never seen anything go up at that percentage (barring things that have had taxes levied on them, like cigaretts).


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Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 4:57 pm
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The increase was set in place to stabilize a price during later stages of deflation that could be maintained as we eventually start to come out of deflation back into inflation. Couple the feelgood factor of a growing economy with cheap fender guitars and their profit margins will boom whilst still selling well priced instruments???

Maybe.

Nothings selling at the moment perhaps they decided to take it on the chin and plan a solid strategy for later. I'm no wall street wizard its just a guess.

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Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 4:58 pm
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windwalker go play your guitar and get back to earth


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Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 4:58 pm
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windwalker go play your guitar and get back to earth


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Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 5:02 pm
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jaguar 58 wrote:
windwalker go play your guitar and get back to earth


Im sitting right here, why dont you go back to bed.


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Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 5:27 pm
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pjtrate3 wrote:
A number of manufacturers have had price increases this year, Gibson among them. I just think in the case of Gibson it wasn't as noticed as their prices have been quite astronomical for a while :lol:

Not everyone thinks Gibsons Prices are astronomical! There are reasons Gibson cost what they do and that is they are not bad guitars.

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Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 5:42 pm
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cvilleira wrote:
pjtrate3 wrote:
A number of manufacturers have had price increases this year, Gibson among them. I just think in the case of Gibson it wasn't as noticed as their prices have been quite astronomical for a while :lol:

Not everyone thinks Gibsons Prices are astronomical! There are reasons Gibson cost what they do and that is they are not bad guitars.


I know they're good guitars, I own one and love it. But still, if I hadn't worked for a music store when I bought it, I never would've been able to afford it. I'm not a doctor or a lawyer, I'm a musician with a day job. It seems they're catering to the formers rather than the latter.

$8504 for a 50th Anniversary '59 Reissue Les Paul is a tad on the ridiculous side though, don't you think?

$3899 for a regular, off the rack Les Paul Std?

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Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 6:33 pm
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pjtrate3 wrote:
cvilleira wrote:
pjtrate3 wrote:
A number of manufacturers have had price increases this year, Gibson among them. I just think in the case of Gibson it wasn't as noticed as their prices have been quite astronomical for a while :lol:

Not everyone thinks Gibsons Prices are astronomical! There are reasons Gibson cost what they do and that is they are not bad guitars.


I know they're good guitars, I own one and love it. But still, if I hadn't worked for a music store when I bought it, I never would've been able to afford it. I'm not a doctor or a lawyer, I'm a musician with a day job. It seems they're catering to the formers rather than the latter.

$8504 for a 50th Anniversary '59 Reissue Les Paul is a tad on the ridiculous side though, don't you think?

$3899 for a regular, off the rack Les Paul Std?

I don't think any Gibson is off rack, and if you go to Guitar Centers web site right now you will see 32 Fender guitar versions for sale for over 3000.00 each most between 4 and 5000.00 and you can build a bolt on neck much easier and faster then a set neck. And I doubt they are just the Doctor, Lawyer model fenders, though Doc may have had a few in his day.
Everyone says Gibson is over priced yet fender sell a lot of models that are 3 to 5 grand themselfs,
I like my Fenders but I like guitars not a brand name. If I dont like a guitar I have no problem saying so but it will not be because of the brands name or where its made od by who.

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Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 7:17 pm
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Could it be the laws of supply and demand? When inventory is up and demand is high prices drop. If inventory is down and there is less demand prices go up.


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Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 7:45 pm
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But raising prices in a downturn is no easy task.

"Businesses need to be careful how this is managed," says Stephen Byrne, strategy director for brand consultancy Diffusion.

Byrne emphasises the importance of having a communication strategy to manage price jumps, regardless of their position in the market.

There might be good reasons for raising prices, but in a buyer's market it's likely customers won't wear the price hikes without very good reason.

"Brands need to provide credible explanations for their decisions," Byrne says.

Management consultant Peter Gruben agrees. "As a customer I would like see what I get in addition for the price increase, and it better be worth it."

Defenceable price rise
Phil Bonanno, the director of retail strategy at research consultancy The Leading Edge, says those companies planning to raise price must have what he calls a "defenceable story".

This might involve explaining to customers that the cost of a key raw material or ingredient has increased, so retail prices must go up. Bonanno gives the example of Woolworths, which uses advertisements filmed in fresh food markets to update customers about price changes in fruit and vegetables.

"Customers get that, they understand that the price of bananas have increased because of the floods. If it's a defensible story that is easily told, then you've got a good case."

However, if you're simply raising prices to increase profits, be prepared for a backlash - particularly during this downturn.

"If anybody thinks this is a profit grab, you'll get absolutely slammed," Bonnano says.

Help your customers beat the rise
Urging customers to "beat the price rise" can be one way of keeping that trust with the customer during price increases. Companies from Bluescope Steel and Sony to BMW and Doors Galore are taking this transparent approach and allowing customers a little time to purchase before a price jump.

Not only does this strategy soften the blow for the customer, but it also helps drag sales forward and keeps the cash flowing.

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Post subject: Re: Fender should be able to solve the economic problems
Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:55 am
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windwalker9649 wrote:
I know there have been a million threads about the price increases, but Ive still not heard a real reason. Most people are saying "it must be because the price of components have gone up".


Well, I think that several good reasons have been made in regards to this. Fender hasn't done any major price increases in a long while, here in the US we -are- in a major recession and a lot of things in this country have gone up (like fuel costs in regards to shipping), etc.. Let's look at Fender's plant in China for a moment...ok, sure, cheap prices there, slave labor, etc., etc., but the cost to ship those parts back here to the US (or elsewhere around the world) has gone up considerably. Who exactly pays for that? The consumers...period...that's just the way it works. More over, if you compare prices with other brands, even with the price increase, Fender instruments are still reasonable and are not something to complain about as a whole.

While a lot of folks seem to be taking this personally as though Fender did this just to hurt our personal feelings as Strat owners, you have to remember that Fender is a "big business" and big companies can and do increase their prices. You can look at them however you choose, but their sole purpose is profit and to "make money"...if they didn't make money, they wouldn't be around for -ANY- of us.



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Yeah, right, that's it. The whole planet is in a state deflation, EVERYTHING is dropping in price and value.


Are you nuts? I can't speak to the "whole planet" but here in the US at least, a great many things have gotten considerably more expensive over the last 4 years or so. When I would go to the grocery store like 4 or 5 years ago, I could get a weeks worth of groceries for $30 to $40 (I shop at places like Aldis and Save-a-Lots) and for that same weeks worth of groceries, I now pay up to $60 to $70 or more. There for a while here in the US, fuel prices were totally outrageous...the cost of a gallon of gas (petrel to you European folks) went from around $1.25 a gallon to OVER $4 a gallon. For a while lately that had come back down to under $2 a gallon but if you watch closely it's creeping back up again. The cost of fuel alone translates in to virtually everything else here in the US economy. Sure, housing prices are down but that market is very subject to the laws of supply and demand...with the recession, a lot of people simply aren't buying houses so prices have gone down. As a whole though, most retailers prices have gone up considerably in this country in recent years...and for larger retailers who haven't raised prices, a lot of them are either downsizing or simply going out of business. Look at companies such as Circuit City, Linens & Things, Steve & Barry's and even the restaurant industry...a lot of companies have gotten whacked really hard here in the US.

Another thing to consider is that here in the US, unemployment is at record highs. There are -a lot- of people who are out of work right now and that contributes to problems with the economy..people who don't have money can't spend it. As such, for many people the focus of how they spend their money tends to shift from luxury items to being a bit more "pragmatic". People who are struggling to feed their families are less likely to go out and buy a 60" flat panel TV or the latest X-Box or a new high end computer, etc., so yes, many of these luxury items have gone down in price but if you look at the economy as a whole, it's a mess.

Again, I can't speak for the entire planet, but here in the US to say that "EVERYTHING" is coming down in price...sorry, but that's just ludicrous and simply is NOT true and despite having plants outside of the US, Fender is still a US based company, a great portion of their business comes from the US and they are certainly subject to trends in the US economy.


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But Fender guitars have made a product that is worth 20-40% more than last year. They have to be kidding.


I'd say from the looks of things that they're quite serious :D.

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They've figured out how to beat the downward falling economy. Why hasnt the Fed gotten them to figure out how to pull us out, they obviously have figured out how to cast spells to allow them to charge much more when everyone else has beg for business.


Without going into too much depth here, let's just say that the musical instrument market tends to work a little differently than other markets do. We musicians can often be an irrational lot. I'm not saying that -all- guitar players are like this but often times for a lot of guitar players, a new guitar is something we seem to think we "have to have". For many people, a guitar isn't simply a luxury item like a big screen TV, it's a "tool of the trade" and a necessity. If you doubt this just look at how many threads of forums such as this start with someone asking/saying, "I'm looking for a new guitar but I'm on a budget..." and how many people will jump in right away and say "buy and American Standard". That's just how this mentality works. More over for many of us, it's a constant upgrade thing as well...little Johnny get's his first guitar when he's 6 or 7 to learn how to play. Chances are it's something like a Squire Bullet or a First Act or Washburn Lyon or something similar. If little Johnny keeps playing, later he gets into his first garage band and he's going to need a "nicer" guitar...and probably a bigger amp too. Later Johnny get's his first job so he buys himself something even nicer still (because his parents have grown to HATE the music he plays and have sworn to NEVER get him another guitar! LOL). Even later still when Johnny becomes a "working musician" (or weekend warrior at least), well...he's gotta have that American Standard. I know there are a few folks out there who have only owned -1- guitar their entire lives, but for many of us, it often seems to be a perpetual investment.

Then of course there's other folks like myself who tend to be "collectors"...you wake up one morning in a bad mood or something and you go out and buy a new guitar. "Yea...the new tires for the car can wait another month or two...I really have to get a new Strat today!", LOL!!! Again here, it's a very different market and mentality than more traditional markets. It just doesn't work the same way.

As I've said before...the price increase on Fender's part isn't that big a deal. 25 years ago when I first started playing, the quality of an instrument costing under $200 was...well...pure crap. Remember brands like Memphis, Lotus and Cort? Oye! The quality of a Squire Bullet, which is now around $130 after the price increase is still 1000% better than what you could have gotten for that same money 25 years ago. In other words, the quality has come up considerably but the prices as a whole haven't changed that significantly over the last 25 years and if anything they came down quite a bit in that time.


This is just my opinion as always, but honestly...people need to get over this already. All the whining and complaining in the world is NOT going to change it. If you had "saved up" $900 to get an Am Std, then just save a little more...if you -really want- an Am Std, then it will be worth it to you. Otherwise swallow your pride and consider a mid-range instrument or just buy used.

"Fender raised their prices.....WHHHHAAAAAHHHHHH!" jeezz...get over it already.

Jim


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Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:14 am
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Hey now, I have a new Les Paul Standard, and im not a doctor or a lawyer!

However, I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express a couple weeks ago!! :lol:

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