Ok...this one is a builders question. Someone may have to go drag one of the guys out of the custom shop for this one, LOL!!!

While technically I'm working on a Tele (this is a different guitar from the Strat that I'm also building), the question certainly applies to Strats as well as all guitars. When measuring the scale length of a guitar, say a Tele or Strat with a 25 1/2" scale length, from where to where should those measurements be taken? Starting at the headstock...is the measurement taken at the nut or the individual tuners? With the bridge, should it be around the middle of the saddles to allow movement back and forth for intonation?

To give you a little background here, I had this old Tele clone...a Rhythmline (don't feel bad if you've never heard of it). I had purchased this instrument some 20 odd years ago for $75 shortly after I started playing. The body on this thing was a -major- piece of crap...wasn't even good plywood, but the neck is actually pretty sweet so instead of chucking the whole thing, I decided to cut a new body for it. I had some red oak laying around the garage and thought it would be an interesting experiment to see how the red oak sounds as it's not a traditional tone wood....it's not like it cost me anything other than time anyways. This was about a year or so ago that I cut this and because of some other issues, I'm just now getting back to it. Now so far, so good. The problem is, the original guitar wasn't a full size tele...bigger than a 3/4 but smaller than full size. Some odd scale length that only a phsyco would have thought of apparently. I had thought I took this into account when I had cut and routed the body especially since I'm using full size hardware but after measuring things, I think it's a tad bit off...but about an inch (the width is fine by the way...just the length appears to be off). I'm really not sure if I screwed up here or of the guitar I modeled it after (the original) was just off but either way I know that the 12th fret should be right in the middle of the scale length, but now I'm not certain where I should be measuring the scale length from.

If push comes to shove, I can always get a full size Tele neck...would be -way- easier than re-routing the whole body or cutting a new one, but before I do that I really want to check my own ineptness here.

Thoughts?
Thanks,
Jim

Scale length is the inside dimensions of the string from the nut to the bridge.

Yep nut to saddle are the breakoff points that scale is measured between. The fine tune of saddles allowing for lengthening or shortening of scale to fine tune against the mass of the individual strings. Whilst length of string to tuners does contribute to tension the breakoff points govern scale length and therefore fret placement.

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No no and no

Ok...at the bridge then, exactly where should one take the measurement from? Obviously the saddles are a bit "staggered"...shorter scale length on the high E, longer scale length on the low E (assuming for proper intonation). Should the measurement be taken at the "in between" point? In other words, should I set all of the saddles to about the middle of the screw travel to take that measurement?

No one string is likely to be precisely the "scale length" of the guitar. Since the oddball neck is the problem... measure precisely from the nut to the 12th fret, and multiply by two. This will give you the distance of the saddles from the nut.

I get that, but for the sake of precision, measure to where on the saddles? To make this easier, let's say that from the nut to the twelfth fret is exactly 12 inches and we double that to 24 inches. Now if I measure from the nut which is at a fixed position, since the saddles have a good inch worth of travel, where should I have those saddles set to measure out that 24 inches? Should the saddles be set in the middle of the travel length of the screw to obtain this measurement?

Ok if this is for your own instrument i'd fit the trem to another guitar, rough out the saddle position and then remove the bridge and fit it to its destined guitar using the average position of the saddles as your zero point. What kind of bridge is it that your fitting and to what guitar? If its any fender type i'll measure the position from the twelth fret to the pivot posts.

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No no and no

Hi Jim: the precise answer to your question is that the scale length is measured from the breaking point on the nut (the edge facing the fingerboard) to the breaking point on the saddle of the top e string (the breaking point on the saddle is the exact spot the string and the metal of the saddle part company).

In theory the sounding length of the B string is then that scale length plus its own width, which is why its saddle gets moved back a touch. And so on through the strings.

In practice other factors affect exactly how strings vibrate and so where the saddles are set to make the string intonate correctly, which is why you get the stagger between the saddles of the wound and unwound strings.

But measure your scale length on the top e. That's the official way. Breaking point on the nut to the twelfth fret is half the scale length. That way you can find out what the scale length of a neck is when it is removed from the guitar.

Cheers - C

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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

Thomas Jefferson

Excellent explanation. Even a congressman could understand it.

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Thank you!

Though it raises some obvious theoretical/practical questions. I'm waiting to see if lomitus comes back on those...

Cheers - C

This thread makes me want to go measure some guitars to find out the lengths of the individual strings vs the scale length ... I wonder why the original poster, Iomitus, just didn't go measure all of his guitars and answer his own question?

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Member #26797
My other guitar is a Strat.

He's got the "waiting for the paint to dry" antsies!

I can remember being bothered by the same issue a lomitus (dimly remember, that is - where's my walking stick?). Given that likely none of the saddles in fact lies exactly on the 25.5 inch mark, what does the scale length actually mean?

Really, it's a theoretical position, around which the saddles are in fact intonated. If you could get top strings light enough you'd probably find that they actually intonated short of the 25.5 inch position.

Get's even more mystifying when you discover that Gibson's quoted 24.75 inch scale length has in reality been three different lengths at various points in history. (24.562", 24.625" and 24.750". But nobody loves a smartypants...)

Cheers - C

I knew it varied over the years (like it was close to 24 1/2"), but I hadn't seen the numbers.

Thanks from a numbers guy.

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Member #26797
My other guitar is a Strat.

Actually got tied up with some auto repairs amongst other things this weekend...had to replace the ignition cylinder in my minivan so I haven't been doing much with the guitars this weekend at all. I'll probably get back on the scale length thing tomorrow...and Ceri...thank you for the explanation...made a lot of sense actually. I'll re-read it tomorrow but that sounds exactly like the info I was looking for.

L8r,
Jim