When it comes to live bands vs bedroom practice I think this is an excellent point. People get hung up on finding that ultimate tone, but when do you ever hear that except in the peace and quiet of your bedroom? When playing live with a band I think a lot of the individual tone gets lost in the mix.

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http://www.bluesrepublic.org/

2008 Fender American Stratocaster
2008 Fender Deluxe Telecaster
Fender Power Jazz Bass Special 1987 (MIJ)
Egnater Renegade Head
Egnater Tourmaster 2x12 cab

hey.
i use a fender blues deville, think it sounds great. a bit loud, but i just use earplugs when me and my band is praccing:p i wary a bit between two guitars i have, a 1965 model Hagström 3 and a mexico Strat. so my setup is as follows: Fender/Hag>T-Rex Mudhoney>Fender Blues DeVille.
With that t-rex dist.pedal i can get a really dirty sound, love it.
but that's what works for me, i don't know what kind of "sound" you like, just try som different amps and youll find your sound.

Dude...that's all fine and dandy and I will even agree to a small degree...if you want "twang" for example, nothing beats a Tele....but...

I noticed you didn't answer the question I put to you. There's a tune that I recorded there...what guitar and amp did I use for the lead? If gear really makes -that- much of a difference, you should be able to tell me just by listening right? So what did I use? Strat? Am Std? MIM? Squire? Clone? Tele? Kramer? Les Paul? Jackson? PRS? Schector? Was the amp a Fender? Marshall? Vox? Peavey? HiWatt? Roland? Mesa? Ampeg? GK? Orange? Crate? Line 6? Laney? Kustom?

Again I'm not trying to be rude...I'm only trying to prove a point so come on dude...the ball's in your court...

Its a band i used to play in but left after a drunken argument, something ive had chance to repent at my leisure. I didnt conduct myself well. The bassplayer still doesnt speak to me but the singer and I are getting together soon for a few jars and a giggle. They've been through a hard year recently and had the wind taken out of their sails so aren't that interested in touring anymore. A real shame, they were quite the live show to see.

Punk rock at its best, great songs you dont hear too much because the onstage antics divert your attention.

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No no and no

Hey guys, as a side note I came across a great show on TV last night on the Ovation channel. It was a Blues history put together by Bill Wyman. It covers the history of the blues and had info and footage (where possible) on all the greats including acoustic players (no amp needed). Ovation has a tendency to repeat their shows, so if you get this channel, check it out! Robert Johnson, TBone Walker, Muddy, Howlin' Wolf, Buddy, BB, John Lee, etc.

Ditto!.......and the book that goes with that is a great addition to the library of seriously interested parties.

Doc

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"Another day in paradise!"

[quote="nikininja"]


Niki: I swear there's a great book in there for you. Every consider writing

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"Another day in paradise!"

That's what sound checks are for.

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"Another day in paradise!"

I have to debate that comment. To me that sound check isn't about producing the sound or tone of one individual instrument or player...at least it shouldn't be. A sound check is to make sure "the band" sounds it's best as a whole.

Be it live or in the studio, in an ideal world, every instrument should have it's own "space" in the mix but the problem is that sound doesn't quite work that way. In regards to a guitar for example, if you play a single note, that note is going to have a certain frequency. Let's say an open A (or A4). The frequency of that note is 440 Hz. The problem here is that's not the -only- frequency that's being heard...if it were, it would sound terrible! LOL!!! Ever listen to a tone generator? Not very musical to say the least. When you play a note on any stringed instrument, there are several other frequencies heard in the harmonics, overtones, etc.. The problem this poses is that in a mix a great many frequencies are going to over-lap and blend together. A guitar for example tends to have a rather wide dynamic range and that range can blend in with everything from the vocals to the snare and toms on the drum kit to some of the upper bass frequencies. If there's a second guitar there or keyboards or something, you're going to have even more blend. Now in regards to a live band especially, you also have other factors when it comes to the over-all mix...the acoustics of the room for example. Let's face it, virtually every bar I've ever played in at least has had it's own sound for the room, and that sound is almost never "tuned" for a live band (try playing in a concrete barn someday...talk about a nightmare!). Then of course there's the ambient sound of the crowd to contend with. This doesn't even take into account the other sound equipment...the mixing board, the speakers and processing equipment etc.. So in that regard, Tomk64 is absolutely correct...the sound you hear from a guitar in a live band (or on a recording) is NOT the same sound you're going to hear from your guitar (and amp) if your sitting quietly in your bedroom (or basement or garage or studio).

Perhaps this is just my experience talking here but I'm not just a guitar player. I've ran mixing boards in live sound and in the studio for many years and in addition to that I also play drums, bass, a little keys, etc.. Now I can't speak for other engineers, but personally I find working with other guitar players in that respect to be a complete $@!&*, LOL!!! Let's see, it almost always goes something like this; "Dude...I'm not loud enough...you need to turn me up in the mix!". There are two trains of thought here. The first is about your sound as a guitar player (or for the sake of fairness, an "instrumentalist") and the second is about the mix. I'm not trying to be harsh here but I think that "ego" is a big factor...some folks spend years trying to get that ultimate tone, so they want to hear that tone in all of it's glory on something like a recording but unless it's strictly a solo recording, then it's usually not possible...again it's about the mix and the band and not one person's guitar.

There's also another point that I would like to bring up in direct regards to this thread. In my 25 years, I've played quite a few gigs in venues ranging from dorm basements to bars to the a fore mentioned concrete barn (that one was at a 3 day music festival a few years back)...no big "concerts" yet. Of all the shows I've done in my time, I have never once had a person walk up to me and say "dude...that sounded good, but it would have been better if you had of been using a Les Paul (or Marshall or other piece of gear)". Sure, as a guitar player, when I go to see a live band I'm sitting there doing some "critical listening" and I tend to critique the performance...and I'm sure that other guitars players (or bass players or drummers or keyboard players or singers) do the same. The thing here is that more than 98% of you're listening audience, be it live or studio, are NOT musicians! Most people who go to see a live band don't know a Strat from a Les Paul and they certainly don't know a Twin from a Marshall from a Buick. The greater majority of people who listen to live music tend to listen for certain things...melody, rhythm/beat, occasionally lyrics (trust me...if they can't hear or understand the vocalist, the sound person does hear about it!), etc.. Now if you make a major screw up say in the middle of a guitar lead, -that- people will notice but if you play well and the mix is decent...no one's going to notice that perfect, ultimate tone that you spent soooooooooooo many years searching for and trying to cultivate...even -if- they could hear it over the PA and thru the rest of the mix. The only person it really matters to is the person playing that guitar and perhaps another guitarist.

So to imply that a "sound check" is to avoid the "individual tone getting lost" is rather inaccurate at best if not flat out wrong.

L8r,
Jim

this are a little too expensive, but it's worth the pay. I'll just start saving up.

A lot of individuality gets lost in band scenario's full stop. Particularly when inexperienced players rehearse well and play songs well but dont expand or contract their playing to compliment other band members. We as guitarists (playing a main melody instrument) are guilty as satan of this. It ruins a good band and leads to all aspects of tonality getting lost. The best thing guitarists can do is go and play with a brass section and listen to how they compliment each other and work in unison whilst retaining individuality on very similar instruments.

Doc i've often thought of writing but never considered publication. A collection of short stories for my kids and nieces/nephews was all i ever acomplished.

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No no and no

The amp makes no difference. It's all about emotion and dynamics to evoke emotions not the amp. It's all feeling and timing.

[quote="lomitus"][quote="zzdoc"][quote="tomk62"][quote="lomitus"]


The magic word is 'dynamics', which I failed to include in my reply. Your rather comprehensive narrative, which is greatly appreciated, speaks directly to my point. Thanks.

Doc

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"Another day in paradise!"

[quote="nikininja"]A lot of individuality gets lost in band scenario's full stop. We as guitarists (playing a main melody instrument) are guilty as satan of this.

This sin is an outgrowth of the sex, drugs, and rock'n roll phenomenon wherein the lead guitar moves front and center, evolving into a chick/guy magnet instead of remaining an integral part of the band.

I remember my first impressions of Slash as "who is this sweaty body in camouflage behind his hat and his hair?" In terms of balance on the stage, his affect was such as to draw attention away from Alex and company, to focus directly on himself.

That's how guitar heroes are born. There are no Charlie Christians in this racket.

Doc

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"Another day in paradise!"