Yep i missed the forward button on the link apologies to all. Previous post being removed now.

That guitar isnt a squire the truss access and headstock shape look completely wrong.

_________________
No no and no

oh come on seriously.....you have never seen an indonesian squier with that style of truss access? the headstock shape can be changed by a special technique I like to call "sanding"

Its probably something someone has knocked up in their shed out of parts they've acquired over time. Doesn't necessarily make it a bad guitar although that decal addition is naughty.

_________________
No no and no

the distance between the string trees doesnt look like squire, its definitely not a fender though

Angle of the nut to the top edge of the curve down into to the headstock???

_________________
No no and no

The neck reminds me of those SX guitars from Rondo music, looking at the truss rod access hole.

_________________
1994 Standard Strat, Blue
2000 Standard Strat, Black, with GFS block, and GFS Lil Killer pickup.
2004 Standard Telecaster, Black
1971 Gibson SG
1985 Kramer Baretta
1986 Kramer Vangard
Carvin X60B
Marshall 50 watt 2x12 combo

Personally I'm inclined to agree that it's probably a fake. As a person who recently "faked a logo" (albeit a vintage logo for my own purposes), that one really doesn't look right to me...the lettering looks wrong and the position does as well. In addition, while it's a little hard to tell from the pics, I'm not seeing "FENDER" stamped on the bridge saddles either. Granted those could have easily been changed, but it's still an indicator. Did you ever have the neck off the body and if so, were there date stamps and such on both the heel of the neck and the neck pocket of the body? No stamps would be another indication that this is a fake. Another little thing I'm seeing is the trem cover on the back...with my '96 Standard at least, the two screws in the middle are offset a bit from each other...they're not directly parallel as yours are here. Kinda looks like an odd color too. Any one of these things on their own could be easily dismissed but together...if I had of been the buyer, I'd have raised an eyebrow.

As far as the buyer wanting the money back, there's a couple of ways to look at it. First I would state the obvious...you bought the instrument "as is" and the person who bought it from you bought it "as is". If the buyer had a question in regards to the authenticity, then it was his responsibility to do this before he made the purchase. I won't go into the issues of "being a nice guy" and giving him the money back...at the risk of being blunt, since neither of you had the good since to verify the authenticity of the instrument, you both got what you deserve. That said, depending on the local laws of the state where you live, you may have a legal obligation to refund his money. Some states (such as here in Ohio) maintain what's commonly referred to as a "no lemon law"...it was designed to protect people from unscrupulous car salesman and such but it can in some cases be applied to other purchases as well. Whether or not the buyer chooses to pursue this though is another issue.

Of course it's also worth mentioning that just because it's a "fake" (assuming that it actually is), doesn't mean that it's not worth the $450 you said you sold it for. If it's a decent quality fake, considering your upgrades and assuming you sold that hardshell case with it and that it plays well, it could still be worth close to the $450. It's not like you scalped someone here for $10,000 for a fake vintage instrument that was only worth $200. After taking a quick look at Ebay, let's assume that it's a $150 knock off. We can also assume that $90 is a fair price for the pickups and that you payed around $30 for the tortoise shell pickguard. -If- you sold the hardshell case with it and if that case is genuine Fender, you can easily assume another $100 there...that's $370 right there. It's unlikely that any lawyer is going to really take the case over an $80 dispute for an "as is" sale.

The way I see it is this...again the instrument was sold "as is" and I assume you didn't provide the buyer with any kind of certificate of authenticity or anything. I also assume that you're not a dealer and since you are asking these questions to begin with, it seems safe to assume that you were indeed not aware of this issue yourself to begin with. So as the old saying goes, "buyer beware"...he didn't have the good sense to verify the origin of a used instrument before he payed for it, so he's pretty much out of luck. Should he decide to take you to court over this, it will be up to him to proove that you were intentionally trying to commit fraud....and "intent" can often be hard to prove. On the other hand...I'm a photographer and not a lawyer .

There is one last issue here though that you may wish to consider in regards to providing the buyer with a refund and that is; where the sale took place. Did this person come to your house to buy this instrument? If so, said person knows where you live and may choose less than legal means for compensation...in other words, if this person thinks you deliberately ripped him off and he knows where you live, don't be surprised if you find your car tires slashed or you get a brick thru your window or something should you choose to not give him a refund.

There's a lot of "ifs" here and you haven't given us a lot of the details. Based on what you have provided though, I would simply explain to the buyer exactly what you have stated here...you were told by the person you bought it from that it was real, you didn't know it was a fake and that you have already spent the money.

BTW...hopefully you've learned NOT to take a person at their word when it comes to a guitar. I recently purchased a guitar body where the seller swore up and down that it was a "pre 80's American Fender" and wouldn't come clean until I was able to proove it to him. In my case I only payed $25 for the body so it was still well worth it but some folks will bs just for the sake of bsing. Just because your teacher "bought it from a legit dealer" doesn't mean your teacher or said dealer didn't bs about it.

Good luck with this and I hope it works out for both you and your buyer.

Peace,
Jim

Hi Jim,
I have $450 into the guitar. The reason I sold is because i was looking for an acoustic/electric and not playing the guitar. I mean knock-off or not it sounds and plays great especially with the American Standard pups.

I am an honest guy and feel foolish that i may have been duped. But in no way did i lie to the guy. I sent him the photos so he could have checked out the serial number. I new nothing about knock-off guitars. Its not like i bought it off a guy on a street corner from a guy wearing a trench coat lined with guitars.

But like you said buyer beware. I will be very hesitant about buying another guitar off craigslists.

But how do you feel about having sold the guitar to another guy?

_________________
I'm not an expert, but I play one on the internet.

Buyer beware and seller don't misrepresent.

opado­temakho­selakho­galeo­kranio­leipsano­drim­hypo­trimmato­silphio­karabo­melito­katakekhy­meno­kikhl­epi­kossypho­phatto­perister­alektryon­opto­kephallio­kigklo­peleio­lagōio­siraio­baphē­tragano­pterýgōn

Greek;
λοπαδοτεμαχοσελαχογαλεοκρανιολειψανοδριμυποτριμματοσιλφιοκαραβομελιτοκατακεχυμενοκιχλεπικοσσυφοφ αττοπεριστεραλεκτρυονοπτοκεφαλλιοκιγκλοπελειολαγῳοσιραιοβαφητραγανοπτερύγων

_________________
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

Thomas Jefferson

I don't think it's a matter of being hesitant as much as knowing what it is you are looking at and knowing what it's worth before you pull out your wallet. In the case of the body I just bought (which, incidentally was also from Craigslist), while I couldn't quite prove it at the time, I pretty much knew as I was buying it that it wasn't a Fender body...American or otherwise. No date stamp, the tooling was too crude, the hole in the neck pocket, etc.. To me that wasn't the real issue. I knew what I was looking for and I -knew- the body was still well worth the $25...actually if the guy had of cleaned the body up, he could have easily sold it on Ebay for $40 to $70.

The truth of the matter is that it's very easy to fake a guitar these days and especially a Strat. While I had posted this in my own thread, I'll repost the pictures here for you to prove my point. Here's the little project I'm working on....


Before...




And after...





Yes, it really is that easy. In otherwords, you can't just look at the headstock logo and assume the guitar is genuine...no matter what the seller may say or who he says he bought it from. Remember, the seller is looking to make a buck here too. You also can't really rely on a serial number to tell you much either. Let's say that in my case I was trying to rip someone off. It wouldn't be hard to replicate a serial number reflective of the model and year that I was trying to pass off. In the case of my '96 MIM I could very easily just change the last few digits of the serial number (or look up a similar serial number on some hot sheets) for a "vintage correct" number. Let's say I took my $99 Squire Bullet which has the same headstock...if I were to apply the correct decal and someone like yourself or your buyer were to have bought this instrument and ran that number, you'd still be "faked out".



BTW, here's a pic of what the guitar is going to look like in a few weeks when I put her together...and yes, this is the $25 body I got which has now been refinished....





In my case here I'm -NOT- selling this guitar...not trying to rip anyone off here at all. More over, if a person knows what to look for, they could easily tell this instrument is a major fake but...for a person who doesn't know what they're doing, it's pretty easy to pass a fake off as genuine these days. Once I get the Fender bridge on it, I will have less than $150 in to this instrument but if I were to choose, I could easily sell it to an unaware newbie for $400 to $800 or more...see my point?

Again it's not a matter of being hesitant as much as simply being "a smart shopper". If you're considering a used instrument, it's worth doing a little research before you hand over your cash....know what you want, know how much it's worth and know what to look for when you're looking at the actual instrument. In the case of my example above, if you were looking to buy a '72 Strat, you should know that it shouldn't say "Crafted in Indonesia" on the back of the headstock! LOL!!!

Peace,
Jim

The thing with the fakes, and its a big problem for Gibson too, maybe even more than fender right now, is that the fakes aren't always pure garbage. Some are fairly decent guitars.

_________________
I'm not an expert, but I play one on the internet.

Guys i'm not sure of US law but under english consumer law 'bought as sold' or 'as is' does not stand up to a courtroom. For one thing from what i can gatther the guitar was sold as a fender stratocaster, which it clearly isnt. Its the same with used cars over here. If the thing breaks down up to 3 months later you have a good argument for recompense in that the car was sold unfit for the purpose of which it was designed.

Tiki i truely believe you sold the guitar with complete honesty to the best of your knowledge. However that may not stop you getting torn apart in a courtroom. I'd pull out all the stops if you'd sold that guitar to me as a legitimate fender. First off i'd seek legal advice (trading standards in the UK i presume you have some such authority over the water). Secondly i'd try to reach an amicable settlement with the buyer. Dont let them get you into court unprepared.

I dont want to be seeing you on Judge Judy ok mate.

_________________
No no and no

First glance - 12th fret position markers are in the wrong place - too far apart...

Wow, that headstock and decal look all wrong!

If the buyer drags you to Small Claims Court to get his money back, tiki, please do tell us what comes of it. Good luck to you.

A sad situation for sure.

_________________
Member #26797
My other guitar is a Strat.