Equal action throughout the whole length of the neck would be a flat neck, no relief. Because the strings make contact with the nut and the saddles, they need the most space to vibrate in between these two points. I could see that low action on a flat neck would create some massive buzz. Well the way I pick at least...

If its a case that the frets are not level, the guitar is outa here.
I mean, its a high end, fender deluxe strat. If its a case that fender want to charge 1500 bucks for a guitar, but not finish it off correctly, then they can go run and jump, there are a lot of companies out there who will take the time, effort and care to ensure a guitar is finished properly and set up correctly. these are tough times, and competition is high. other companies with higher quality procedures deserve my money more than fender, who seem to rely on the brand more than quality any more.

Thanks for the advice all. il update you once i get a straight edge to check the frets to see if they are level.

Its all i can think of to cause it aside from a neck pitch issue. I must say though i've never seen a fender product with bad fretwork. Doesnt the AMDLX have a microtilt gizmo.
I use this method to correct neck pitch/angle

Straighten your neck dead flat, lay the guitar flat with a couple of credit cards under the body to lift it parallel to the neckplate. Measure from the worktop to the neck heel (it should be 1,1/4") then measure the worktop to the back of the headstock. They should be the same measurement. + 1/16 or 1/8 is ok, you dont want minus anything.

I had to go quite into it for Bigjay heres the link the stuff on pickups may or may not apply to you.

http://www.fender.com/community/forums/viewtopic.php?t=18601

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Just a couple of thoughts. Truss rod adjustments may take a day or two to settle in. I have made truss rod adjustments over a 2-3 day period to get the results I wanted. 1/4 turn per adjustment is a good rule. Turn the rod, wait and see if it helps. If not, try a little more. Always err on the side of caution, and make small adjustments. It will not show right away.
I have found quite a few Fender Strats with shims in the neck pocket. Everything from small slivers of plastic to pieces of sandpaper, stock, from the factory that way. Shimming a neck is not a sign of a poor quality job, it is SOP for Fender. The micro tilt should take care of minor problems, but if it is out of the adjusters range, then a shim is necessary.
Granted, a MIA Deluxe Strat should NOT have major problems, and if so, should be taken to a Fender warranty repair site for adjustments/repairs. Wood is wood, and is not perfect, so weird stuff can happen once the guitar is exposed to the elements.

Yes. Thank you. That's exactly right.

Just as a general rule of thumb: before you start talking about how your guitar is "defective" or "Fender doesn't care" because the frets aren't absso-freakin'-lutely perfect or there's a teensy gap in the neck pocket or some other aircraft-tolerances beef you have with your new guitar, think of this:

$1,000 or so does not buy you a high end musical instrument. If you were a violinist or saxophone player, you'd know that you get a student model for that kind of money, not a professional instrument. And guitars are no different.

You want Plek'ed frets and neck pockets so tight they don't need screws, dazzling finishes and a personalized set-up? Buy a Sadowsky or a Suhr or something. 3 or 4K should get you in the ballpark. With a thousand dollars, you can either buy a Fender or put down a deposit on a perfect axe.

So just get the darn thing set up nicely and play it.

Slapchop theres another point i have been in longtime agreement of. Look at what it costs to kit a orchestra out. We as guitarists tend to get off pretty light in comparison. For the cost of a good concert standard violin you could buy 'blackie' gilmours 'no1' or any of the hendrix guitars. Non of which will be as well made as modern guitars.

Ofcourse that doesnt mean i dont like vintage instruments. I just dont think their the holy grail either.

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Yup... I'm sometimes thankful I never got to a professional level as a flamenco guy... I wouldn't have been able to afford a backup guitar! A while ago I took my '60s Conde Hermanos in for repairs (crack in the waist) and it cost me almost half the price of the guitar when I bought it in the late '80s ($1500 back then). I felt pretty fancy when the luthier said it'd be worth around $5000 now... until he showed me a $100k Fleta he was working on. That's a bit extreme. It does seem like you're going to have to part with about 10 grand to get a pro-level classical guitar these days, though... you could maybe buy a couple of nice bows with that if you were a concert violinist... heh.

Dead on, Nikki. The level of precision required from almost any other professional instrument is astounding. Good God, look at what it costs to own a single bassoon! I hire oboe players and cellists for sessions all the time, and you should see the lengths to which these people go to protect their main player: no wonder, since they've got a year's salary wrapped up in them!

Same goes for guitars. I'll bet Walter Becker and Will Lee don't get a break on those Sadowskys. They pay four thousand bucks and UP for the privilege of playing perfect guitars.

And you couldn't be more right on "vintage" guitars. It's a collector's myth, IMO.

Ooops... double post.

Better is a myth. Look at all the modern inventions used in modern music that we wouldnt be without. Properly isolated booths, noise suppressors, enhancers and limiters. They never existed in the 40's, 50's and 60's but are employed today without the guitarist even thinking about them let alone having any input into their use.
Desirability is another aspect though on which vintage instruments will never lose their status. Theres something incredibly cute about old gear that even the most sober minded cynic cant help appreciate.

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I try to remain sober-minded, but I'm no cynic. Sure, the old ones look sexy. But you can't eat "cute."

I used to play on country sessions back in the 70's, when the "vintage Fender" thing was just taking hold, and even though I had some wonderful guitars, the producer insisted that I always play his late 50's Strat. "It's awesome," he'd say, "It's Pre-CBS, it's the greatest guitar, blah blah blah." But that guitar was a dog. Even a compressor wouldn't coax sustain from it... it had the plinky sound of an electric banjo.

So my ability to be impressed by "vintage" guitars was erased at a tender age. I've played dozens of 50's and early 60's Telecasters, and not one of them could touch a mid-80's MIJ 50's RI (basswood, no less!) I encountered about 10 years ago.

Returning to Mr schmintan's setup issues for a minute...

schmintan, unless there's an actual fault with your guitar such as badly finished frets or a warped neck (both massively unlikely on a new instrument) then there is simply no reason why it can't be set up the way you want it. For that matter, no reason it can't be set like your Ibanez - unless that guitar has a fancy compound radius neck or something, which I doubt.

Couple of points. Whether you are following the Fender setup guide on this site or one of the books, you need to work through the process in the step-by-step logical sequence. Often when I've seen people having these kinds of on going difficulties it turns out they are making a little adjustment here, a little one there, round and round, getting nowhere.

Stick to the sequence, starting at the beginning and working through. Here's a fair summary of the steps (from an obvious source):

1. Tune to pitch
2. Capo at first fret
3. Adjust relief at the seventh fret, holding the string down at the last one. If in doubt, err on the side of straighthness. You can always loosen it a tad later. Slacken the strings before each adjustment and tune to pitch again after. Make sure the guitar is in the playing position when you take your measurements, not lying flat on a table
4. One by one, set the strings to height across the 'board at the 17th fret (still capo'd at the first)
5. Remove the capo and check for correct cut at the nut (you know how to do that?)
6. Set pickup heights to factory specs. Alter later to suit personal preference
7. Play all the strings at all the frets looking for buzzes
8. Set the saddles for intonation

Done. Now, if you want to change some aspect of the setup, start again at the beginning and work it all the way through. The second and third time round it will only take minutes, as most aspects will hardly need to change at all.

I'd be slightly surprised if you need to shim the neck on a new Deluxe, but if you need to, do it. That's what they put that micro-tilt system in there for.

As has been said, the difference to feel between 0.25 and 0.5 mm is small. Yet accurate measurements will help: automotive feeler gauges tend to work better for under string measurements than rulers. Feeler gauges with both metric and imperial measurements marked on them are cheaply available (on Ebay, for example).

Also, you need a radius gauge to check your saddle setting. Buy one cheaply or make one for nothing. However, for ultra-accuracy, set your string heights by measuring at the 17 fret (step 4. above). The ultimate way to match your saddles to your fingerboard.

Last thing. €200 for a setup? Get real! That tech might get away charging that price to The Edge but you can get that job done just as well for half that, or a lot less. Charlie Chandler (in West London) will set up your guitar to 1000th of a mil on his state of the art Plek machine for less than that. And his customers include about half the top guitarists you can name.

Shop around!

Good luck - C

I do my own setups and the one thing that became apparent to me is not to get too caught up in recommended measurements. They're a guide. I usually take my neck off and adjust the truss rod a couple times a year. IMO, the best way to find out if its right, is by eye. Hold it lengthwise, and check out the curve in relation to the low E. It was definitely a hugely frustraiting process the first time I decided to go about doing a setup on my own. I think it took me a good couple weeks of tweeking before it was right, 90% of that time was adjusting saddles. A good investment is a string gauge guide. I dont know what they're really called, they're a piece of metal with a handle and a curve set to different radius', 7 1/4, 9 1/2, 12" etc. getting the saddles set to the radius makes a huge difference in keeping intonation right, especially if you have your action set high, and especially if you have a vintage type neck with a 7 1/4" radius because its so round. I have to have my action kind of high, not 2 stories, but relatively high so I can do deeper bends on the 7 1/2" neck. OH, and make sure you have a new set of strings before you start, nothing worse than breaking one and not having a replacement.

thanks Ceri, windwalker9649 et al.
Great advice there, and you have lifted a lot of weight off my mind. i thought i had spent a lot of money ( for me at least) on a poorly made guitar. I would much rather not have to shim or adjust the neck angle, but i guess if its required, its required.

Yes Ceri, you are right, that guy is a ripoff, but everyone here in Ireland brings guitars to him to get set up. hes apparently the best, but for a fret re dressing and set up i was quoted 300 + 125 for the setup!! In ireland there are not many music stores also, and I know most of them and they are "rough" with guitars, to say the least, and i know the guitar would come back with a dent or scratch. im not having that so wouldnt trust the guitar to them. Ive since found out another Luthier that lives a little further away from me, but is also awesome apparently and will do it for 1/4 of the price or even less, and without the 3-4 month waiting list. cant afford 425 for crowning and setup anyway!



Before going to him, I will follow your steps and see what i can get done myself with a little more patience. windwalker9649, you say it took you many weeks to get it right, then i better give myself that amount of time at least. I doubt it can be set up like the ibanez, as that has a very flat fingerboard, compared to the fender which is obviously curved, but something close to the ibanez would be nice.

in relation to feeler guage's, there are many different ranges, would this one suffice:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Metric-Gap-Thicknes ... 1|294%3A50


is this the radius guage you speak of:
http://cgi.ebay.ie/Radius-guage-set_W0Q ... 240%3A1318

i cant see how this can help me set individual string heights. can you please elaborate a little.

Once again, thanks for the advice guys.

Hi all. I hpoe this post is appropriate under this topic since we're talking about setups in general, although this is more about my strat's neck.

I have a 1985 MIJ strat with a 71/4" radiused neck with rosewood fret board. I finally set it up more or less to factory specs using this site and Dan Erliwine's book for reference. As I mentioned elsewhere, I discovered my neck was slightly out of alignment (side to side) and so I shimmed it a teeny bit on the base side to line it up perfectly with the string lies. I could not get rid of all the buzzes and stay within the factory specs. I don't even mind having a bit higher action than factory specs, but I have to go quite a bit too high to eliminate the buzzes. I even tried tilting (shimming) the neck as many have suggeted, but this didn't help much. I finally discovered why!!

MY NECK HAS A SLIGHT BACK BOW IN IT, PERIOD. Even when I completely remove the truss rod nut, and tune the strings to pitch,there is a slight, gradual hump from about the 4th to the 13th fret or so. I checked this again and again with a straigtedge and it measures perhaps 1/32 to 1/16" at it's highest point.

I took it to the "guitar doctor" at a local music store. The tech there had a look at it and confirmed the back bow. He suggested I could try purposely exagerating the back bow by tightening the truss rod and then "carefully" file out some of the hump by leveling the frets with the neck in this exagerated humped position. I, in fact, did this. And I was extemely careful as he warned me to be.

This actually worked to a point, and I got a fairly decent fret dressing out of the deal if I do say so myself. When I string it up now, it's not as bad, but the hump is STILL affecting it. I don't dare file anything more off the frets as some of them are now down below .030.

So my question is this. Is there any way to straighten the neck that doesn't pose a risk of ruining it all together?

I have read about a couple of methods but I don't know if I have the guts to try it. One is to clamp it to a rigid metal bar with appropriate shims and cauls in between, and heat it in the oven for a few hours at about 140 degrees F to slightly soften the glue that holds the fretboard on it, then let it cool slowly. The guitar guy I talked to said he had actually done this on cheap guitars and it worked not bad but they sometimes went back to their original shape. Have any of you tried something like this, and has it worked?

I know I could also remove the frets and perhaps plane the hump out of the fret board, and re-fret it. I don't think I'm ready to try that, and I don't want to pay someone 2 or 3 hundred bucks to do it for me.

I'm mostly interested in trying to straighten the whole neck if I can and wondering if it can be done somehow?

Old Shooting Star

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ca.1983 Larivee L-07
50s replica Tele kit
08 LP Studio-Wine Red
07 Squier Bullet Strat - MIC
94 Fender MB4 Bass
84 Squire Standard Strat - MIJ - black
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