couldn't help but come back to defend myself - i didn't plan on it though...

it's not that i didn't want to take the advice or not bascially agreeing with your suggestion to return the guitar- the whole reason (again) i cerated the post was to find out if the gap was a cosmetic or functional issue - there's no correct answer, it turned out that it's not a cut and dry issue - so how could i take one's advice completely when there are diff opinions?

you and your pal Ceri jumped all over me for listening to YOUR suggestions , i thanked you all for your input , normally that's enough but you guys are a tough crowd

so many posts trashing the workmanship, saying take the thing back it's shoddy - and I'm the buffoon right?

You say that Dan Erlwine is useless and that's accepted - not questioned by your pal Ceri who suggests that other forums members purchase Dan's books? (but I'm a buffoon?)

your comment "the majority of pleasure of new guitars is cosmetic" is just as diff in my belief that I'd rather have a new guitar even with a cosmetic flaw over a another model that's cosmetically perfect if the cosmetically flawed guitar played / sounded better. to me - the pleasure of buying a new guitar is that you found an instrument that brings joy , the color, shape etc. aren't all that important to me , to you and others it's a diff story, that's fine, but that's up to individuals to decide

my post was solely about the pocket gap , it turned out not to be an issue like as if the truss-rod was cracked and rattling around inside the neck, it's a more subjective deal and it turns out there's not extreme proof either way that it will cause a problem or not, that's it.

again funny how there were so many comments about the fretwork and overall shoddy workmanship - folks putting down a guitar that the owner is really proud of - items that have nothing to do with the original subject of the gap - but that's ok, and because my friend decided to keep it, that means i wasted my time creating this whole deal (post)

i have seen some threads go bad on various sites, going back to the newsgroup days but this is the 1st time i have ever been the subject of ridicule -

Jeff Beck's GAP -

One of Jeff Beck's most beloved Strat's has a HUGE gap, check it out here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reuK2msTzec , go to 3min 15 sec into the video

Whatever

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ca.1983 Larivee L-07
50s replica Tele kit
08 LP Studio-Wine Red
07 Squier Bullet Strat - MIC
94 Fender MB4 Bass
84 Squire Standard Strat - MIJ - black
19?? Samik "Artist" acoustic - "peacock"

Fender Superchamp XD
Crate B160XL Bass Combo

Find me where i said he's useless. I said i dont give a toss what he says about neckpockets if he's advocating anything less than perfection. Theirin lies your buffoonery mate.

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No no and no

This is why I like set necks so much.

Yeah, nobody's ever had a problem with one of those.

hushdrops, you misrepresented the content of one of dan erlewine's books. nowhere in any of his books has he stated that having a gap in a neck pocket is a good thing. i have a few of his books and videos, i have yet to find anything near what you claim in his material.

i have found where he says gaps may exist, and that where they do, you have room t move/shift the neck. he has never, in any of my material actually stated that he recommends a gap, or uneven cutting. however,m he doesn't seem to say much about small gaps like the one in his tele(.002") so i don't think he feels it is too great an issue.

he does call the neck to body joint of a bolt on style guitar the most important coupling. i agree with this. he talks about methods to increase the stabilty of this joint in some of his material. I can't imagine him being satisfied of the quality of the join on your friends guitar, without checking to make sure there is no structural problem with the joint.

due to the fact that the gap doesn't appear square, i still really feel you should make sure the rest of the pocket is properly cut. if the base of the pocket is smooth, and level you should be fine, but the angle of the gap is carried through to the pocket, or if base of the pocket has more than one plane you might have serious issues down the road. odds are you will be fine, but it is only prudent to check this out during the honeymoon phase, when you can easily, and for free deal with the issues.

on the subject of Jeff becks start with the gap, no one here has said the guitar won't sound great, just that you may develop issues with the stability of the neck. jeff has a team of techs that keep constant maintenance of his guitars. he has people who repair loose necks, and he pays a lot for them. pro players have repairs done constantly on their axes. will you? do your due diligence, and please stop misrepresenting dan erlewine.

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I'm not an expert, but I play one on the internet.

It's still unacceptable shoddy workmanship in a guitar in this price range. Shame on anyone who accepts it regardless of present or later issues. EJ certainly would not accept it. As a past full time working musician, I wouldn't accept it either. I get a kick out of someone saying, "this is the best guitar I ever played", If you only played a couple, that may be true. I've played hundreds and many, many were exceptional instruments.

noted.
paying a lot of money without demanding quality is foolhardy, in my opinion.
however the original poster is looking for any reason not to be dissatisfied with a flaw--one he brought to people's attention.
in the case where he is looking for any justification to keep the flawed workmanship, i am only suggesting the minimum standard of making sure the structural integrity of the piece is sound.
personally , for 2K i would expect the guitar to both sound fantastic, and to be free of defects in workmanship.

by accepting inferior workmanship, all that is done,is to lower the standard of quality control of further production. if people accept a poorer standard of workmanship at a given price , then that is what they will get.

for a 2k guitar part of the ticket price is purportedly for a higher standard of workmanship.crooked cuts, and poor alignment are hardly hallmarks of "old world crafstmanship'-as the kids say.

well, i am off my soapbox.

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I'm not an expert, but I play one on the internet.

Personally I wouldn't pay 2k for any mass produced bolt together guitar regardless of who made it or how good someone thinks it sounds. Tone is all subjective anyway. For instance I would take Hound Dog Taylor's raw tone over Eric Johnson's over processed echo laden tone any day. I'm not saying EJ isn't talented, and I love listening to his technique but I don't see what's so great about his tone that it took 10 years and the loss of fans and his wife to develop.

In any case, just say no to poor quality instruments regardless of who makes them.

Were there? Where? Who talked about the fretwork?

Just for the record, there is no incompatibility between what Niki, I and everyone else has said about Dan Erlewine. Everyone acknowledges him as one of the leading experts in his field and his books have not been bettered.

Niki merely said that doesn't necessarily make him the last word on all things guitar related - especially, as Twelvebar noted, when he's misquoted.

Nowhere does Dan Erlewine recommend a loose neck pocket as a desirable feature. He discusses what to do if you have one.

World's full of excellent instruments with small gaps in their neck pockets. A bit of maintenance usually makes 'em play fine, as SlapChop has said. They can be kept on the road for years.

For that matter, my car runs beautifully with a few little stone chips in the paintwork accumulated over the years. However, I bought it new and wouldn't have settled for it if it came from the manufacturer with those imperfections.

That's the long and short of it. Why has this simple, simple point that we're all making been so difficult to accept???

Still. It's been a shed load of entertainment. Tune in tomorrow for the next instalment...

- C

..... of the petulant troll thread.

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No no and no

Yes!

I guess it's not bothering me the way it may be doing for other people.

On page three the OP spent four successive long posts pulling apart my previous one in excruciating detail and with bizarre conclusions. And then three even longer posts doing the same to you.

It made me fall about laughing: couldn't take it seriously from that point on.

Just been looking in ever since for the amusement of it. If anyone's genuinely upset by the whole thing they needn't be. It's like being barked at by a very tiny dog...

- C

I like a long thread . It gives me something to keep reading. Somewhat like a long running soap opera. Can't wait to see the next days installment(as Ceri said)! What amazes me is the simplicity of the topic and why the OP can't see the forest for the trees.

I find it strange that somebody would plunk down that kind of coin for a defective guitar and try to find a reason not to keep it like it's the only guitar in the universe that plays or sounds like that.

It's a MASS PRODUCED PRODUCTION GUITAR not a custom shop guitar.

This is so funny, then everybody gets their panties in a knot because they don't like what they hear. This is great stuff.

Its a shame the OP chose guitar as his form of expression, they'd make a good comedian. Its no wonder the music industry is dying when you can get entertainment like this for free.

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No no and no