I've just now read this whole thread for the first time. Here's my story:

I bought a MIJ squier strat in 1985. This is my first and only electric quitar (not including my two basses). I'm an amateur player who mostly just plays in my basement for my own pleasure. I've probably played my squier strat a total of 1000 hours. It was never properly set up in all that time until recently. A month ago, I was given a copy of the "Guitar Player Repair Guide" by Dan Erlewine for my birthday. This book inspired me to finally set up my guitar properly. In the process, I discovered that my neck was out of alignment and that there were slight gaps between the neck pocket and the sides of the neck heel. I followed Dan's recommendation and straightened the alignment and then held it in place by inserting a thin wood shim between the side of the neck and the neck pocket on the bass side. In this process, I also discoverd that two of the four screws that hold the neck on would not tighten completely and just spun in their holes. These are the two screws closest to the body. Except for one time, many years ago, I had never removed the neck. I distinctly remember that the screws tightened properly the last time.

My point is, that over the years, this small gap has allowed the neck to move back and forth enough that the two holes in the body were elongated or distorted enough to lose their grip on the screws. This happened in spite of the fact that this guitar hasn't really had that much use and has not been knocked around or mistreated.

This was not hard to fix as I just plugged the holes with wood slivers and glue, but I agree with those of you who advise not to accept an expensive guitar in this state, and that there will be problems with it later on. Especially since the gap on my guitar is smaller than the gap on the guitar in question.

A comment on Dan Erliwine's advise. I don't think he is saying a gap like that is desirable or even accepable. I think what he is saying is if you come across a neck that is out of alignment, there is often an opportunity to correct it because of an existing gap. If the gap didn't exist, chances are the neck wouldn't be out of alignment in the first place.

Old Shooting Star

Thanks! A very good and informative post. Very good example of what could happen when something defective is not addressed. I do hope my friend reads this. I also hope he comes back and engages us in a two way meaningful way.

[quote="old shooting star".....I discovered that my neck was out of alignment and that there were slight gaps between the neck pocket and the sides of the neck heel. I followed Dan's recommendation and straightened the alignment and then held it in place by inserting a thin wood shim between the side of the neck and the neck pocket on the bass side. In this process, I also discoverd that two of the four screws that hold the neck on would not tighten completely and just spun in their holes......this small gap has allowed the neck to move back and forth enough that the two holes in the body were elongated or distorted enough to lose their grip on the screws.....[/quote]

You've got cause and effect reversed.

Your neck didn't shift because of a "neck pocket gap." Your neck shifted because the screw hole sin the neck were stripped out.

It's that simple. Neck gap is not a problem. The neck is held in place by the screws, not by the neck pocket. If the screws are stripped out. they won't tighten and the neck will shift, and the tightest neck pocket in the world will not prevent that.

Don't believe it? Find a Strat with an impossibly tight neck pocket... like, mine for example. String it up with the neck screws left slightly loose and see what happens.

Sounds reasonable, I think anything that is a slight bit off will eventually cause other problems if left alone and not repaired. Thanks for input SlapChop!

Anyone think that it might have something to do with the binding? I played one for the first time yesterday and although it sounded wonderful, it was a little strange at first because my left hand was telling me that I had a Les Paul while everything else was saying Strat- a very unique neck, I found myself over-bending every note. I wonder that if the almost classical guitar like neck radius caused the need to alter existing routing patterns.

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Custom Shop '59 Strat with John Cruz Master Design Pickups
Vibro King
Fulltone Clyde>Deja-Vibe>TS-808>TS-9>Boss Tuner

You've got cause and effect reversed.

Your neck didn't shift because of a "neck pocket gap." Your neck shifted because the screw hole sin the neck were stripped out.

It's that simple. Neck gap is not a problem. The neck is held in place by the screws, not by the neck pocket. If the screws are stripped out. they won't tighten and the neck will shift, and the tightest neck pocket in the world will not prevent that.

Don't believe it? Find a Strat with an impossibly tight neck pocket... like, mine for example. String it up with the neck screws left slightly loose and see what happens.[/quote]

Sounds like "chicken or egg" to me. What caused the screw holes to strip out? They don't do it to themselves.

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Ignorance IS bliss - and I am the happiest person here!

They strip out because people tighten them too hard too many times, trying to achieve that mythical bond between body and neck that will provide the greatest amount of "tone."

Again, I say: look at the underside of a Strat neck pocket. Is there enough wood there to keep the neck from shifting? No, there isn't.

Your right there isnt a lot of wood securing the bottom of the neck. Does that mean that the neck is only going to get accidentaly knocked one way, so it should be alright?

Its a simple equation to work out. Its in 2 steps.
1 is a tight pocket better than a loose one?
2 why on earth would you accept it on a new guitar when the majority of the pleasure of new guitars is cosmetic?


I think we should employ Monsieur la'France as a guitar buying instructor. I wonder if any of his masterbuilt collection come with a free gap.

Its highly subjective obviously. I just dont see a need for that kind of mistake on a generic factory built guitar. You never see squires with baggy pockets. If i could magicaly travel back to 95 i'd make sure my first mim didnt have a baggy pocket either. Hindsight's always 20/20.

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No no and no

I understand what you're going for but your logic is faulty, because neither of those statement is inherently true.

1. Is a tight pocket better than a loose one? No. It is not functionally better. It's visually better, but only if you notice or care.

2. Why one earth.... the majority of pleasure of new guitars is cosmetic? For you maybe, but I would disagree heartily. The majority of pleasure in ANY guitar, now or otherwise, is how it plays and sounds. If I picked up a guitar that resonated and sang and played great, I most likely wouldn't even notice if there as a gap in the neck pocket.

BTW, that's not an equation. It's not even a syllogism. it's just two related statements.

If the neck pocket gap bothers you, then, fine, whatever., Just don't make the mistake of pointing at it and saying, "oh no, a flaw that detracts from the utility of this instrument." Because it doesn't and won't. That's my only point. If it bugs you, that's your call. But don't fall into the trap of imagining that it bugs you because it detracts from the guitar as a musical instrument. This is how all those tone myths get created, IMO.

Hi guys: just checking in for my daily fix of this magnificent thread.

It's like a surreal soap opera - I wonder whether Mr Hushdrops is really David Lynch in disguise?

Unfortunately, it's all got much more grown up and sensible since Hushdrops seems to have hushed and dropped off it.

What a shame! I hope he comes back soon. I'm hungry for some more "utter buffoonery" - Niki's perfect description.

(C'mon, Ceri: get a grip...)

- C

Slapchop
I find brand new guitars quite uncomfortable until they've been knocked about a bit. I thought everyone preferred played in. Show where assumption gets you i suppose.
Now i pretty much am convinced that fender guitars dont differ much within model ranges. I think they've sewn the market up nicely to accommodate everyone and wont let that slip by knocking out 2 guitars that sound nothing alike within a certain aspect of the range. So if theres 2 identical guitars next to each other one has a tight pocket one has a loose one. They both play and sound the same. Are the same colour and weight. You can afford only one. Which do you pick?
I fully agree that a tight fit is only a partial solution to eliminating neck movement. I agree a lot of cases are down to overtightening of screws. But what about the occasions where its down to the guitar being dropped or knocked and a nice tight pocket would of helped maintain a secure neck.

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No no and no

Why accept a flawed instrument? You should be getting what you paid for and nothing less. To me, sloppy workmanship is unacceptable especially in that price range. If we keep putting up with it, it will only get worse. Just a thought...........
If the body dries and shrinks a little it could be a problem. Whoever said that a tight neck pocket is necessary is a myth, is dead wrong. A sloppy neck pocket and over sized neck bolt holes are serious problems. I have a 72 Strat with a nice tight neck pocket and have no stability issues. But I also had a 76 with a sloppy pocket and had tons of issues with it. You need a small gap to allow for swelling and shrinkage. I use a business card as a gauge. If I can slide a business card in the gap, I'll pass on the guitar.

You used to be able to special order guitars. See if the dealer can get you another one.

You've got cause and effect reversed.

Your neck didn't shift because of a "neck pocket gap." Your neck shifted because the screw hole sin the neck were stripped out.

It's that simple. Neck gap is not a problem. The neck is held in place by the screws, not by the neck pocket. If the screws are stripped out. they won't tighten and the neck will shift, and the tightest neck pocket in the world will not prevent that.

Don't believe it? Find a Strat with an impossibly tight neck pocket... like, mine for example. String it up with the neck screws left slightly loose and see what happens.[/quote]

You may be right. I can't prove or disprove your theory. All I can say is I've owned the guitar since new and the only other time I took the neck off (which was about 15 years ago), the screws were tight when I put them back in, and now two of them were loose. I suppose I could have overtightened them at the time, which is something I can see myself tending to do. If I did, it wasn't for tone since I'd never heard of that before. It would have simply been to make sure it was good and tight.

I still think it had something to do with slight movement in the neck while playing it all these years. According to Dan Erliwine, necks do shift occasionally. He even recommends increasing the grip or friction between the neck and the pocket by inserting a piece of metal window screen.

Interestingly, I also have a 1972 Telecaster Bass (all original) with a 3-screw micro-tilt neck. It had never been set up by me either although it could have been set up one or more times before I got it in about 1989. I also set it up a couple of weeks ago. It's neck was slightly out of alignment too and I shifted it slightly. It's neck pocket was quite tight and all I did was loosen the screws, move it a teeny bit and retighten the screws. It seems to be holding up nicely so far. Of course, there are no issues with the screws as on my squire strat.

Old Shooting Star

The OP has long gone. He never listened to any of the advice offered him so i suggest we keep this friendly and use it to throw a few idea's around. We may in an alternate reality discover a new foolproof way to fit necks perfectly.

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No no and no

Yep, but if the pocket is too sloppy it will give the neck even more opportunity to shift more than slightly. That's a fact. Yes the neck is held by the screws, but alignment is aided by the pocket AND the screw holes. It's simple assembly mechanics. Fact of the matter is Fender is getting sloppy period. With CNC machining and turning, you should not have the inconsistencies that are seen on these instruments. The operators just don't care. I spent 15 years as a CNC machinist setting up and operating turning and machining centers and if I did work like the stuff I've been seeing, they would have canned me on the spot.