thanks for summing it up, i hope my friend's guitar hold's up , he doens't have a PC, so at least i can say i gathered some info for him , i'm sure he'll keep it - unless there was definte info out there from lots of folks taht this would be someting that would surely keep the guitar from staying stable he's gonna keep it

thanks again nikininja

I don't understand the purpose of the OP. If it's such a great sounding guitar and you and your friend believe that it's
the best one you'll ever probably get ,not to mention every suggestion given you have an opposite view, then keep the guitar. After all it is ultimately your friends decision. Am I missing something?
If he loves it then all is cool. Enjoy my friend!

I wonder if EJ would be satisfied?

the original and only point of this thread was to ask if the gap around the neck pocket is something that could lead to structural problems in the future, that's it.

the guitar is fine as is even though some say the neck's out of alignment and you can't play Back in Black on it etc....

i was looking for someone with repair / tech knowledge to give the lowdown on whether or not the gap will cause a prob in the future.

most people claim that the bolts are what holds the neck in place and that they have had guitars like this and nothing ever happened (most of those posts were on another forum) , ninja on this site said that he had a guitar that had a gap in the pocket and it did well for years but now it has an issue.

since this must not be a cut and dry issue, it will be up to my friend to go with the posters that said that they have owned guitars with gaps in the neck pocket and there never were problems, that's it

the posts that come out about nobody should ever settle for any defect on a new / expensive guitar etc were unrelated ......

i don't blame my friend since he's not a guitar tech to try to get answers from experienced folks on the issue before he sinks the $2k into the guitar permanently, that's all - yes it's great now and if the gap never causes a problem all goes well

i learned from this post that this board isn't the place to get such a question fully answered, it's just not possible because it's all too subjective to review on a message board

my views were opposite in folks posting that said just return it, a replacement will sound just as good (or a replacement for the replacement etc.) - i was just pointing out that the whole thing is that yea it's a cool guitar, cool enouhg to keep with a cosmetic (if that's all it is - again the whole point of this) flaw

i'll be glad when my friend takes it home and i can get back to Rockin out on my axe's , he's gonna have to do this message board stuff for himself in the future, haahah

Dont get me wrong Hushdrops. Its obvious that both you and your friend enjoy that guitar as a new guitar and i dont doubt that you have a ear for good tone. The only real point i'm trying to make is, will you enjoy a guitar with a less than perfect neckpocket (which is subject to alot of stress) in Xnumber of years? If you think it will be ok keep it. From experience of poorly cut pockets i wont accept anything less than a tight fit all ways round no matter the price.

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No no and no

Don't get upset with us or my post as it was just an opinion. Not my decision to make.

I want to welcome you to the forum and hope you stick around my friend!

hushdrops,
I have been reading this post from start to finish - and I don't have any stake in the discussion. I am a novice guitar player and have absolutely no luthier-like skills or experience whatsover.

I am, however, a Registered Professional Engineer with 30+ years of experience. And what I have read and seen suggests to me that there may be a substantial probability of future structural issues. Now, no one can say that there absolutely will be or won't be - but if the possibility exists, which it clearly does - I for one would NEVER sink $1900 into the deal unless I had $1900 to flush down the toilet, which I do not.

A new EJ should be virtually perfect and should not be subject to the probablility of future neck instability. I have played a couple of EJs in the shops and have never found one that did not sound wonderful. So I would think that the odds of getting a bad sounding guitar in return are far less than the odds of this neck pocket issue being a real problem in the future.

My two cents worth....

_________________
Ignorance IS bliss - and I am the happiest person here!

What a bewildering thread!

The problems with this guitar were accurately identified in Hushdrop's very first post and supported with excellent photos that emphasised the points beyond doubt.

Ten people have replied, every single one of them as it happens guys with decades of playing experience and some who build and repair guitars: not an ignorant kid blowing off above his pay grade amongst them. Not bad!

I count six as saying flatly; return that guitar. A couple say; keep it if you feel all right about it. And a couple discuss the pros and cons of the issues and suggest possible fixes.

And there you go: some experience, some views. But ultimately not our choice to make.

Then three pages of challenges to the points that Forum Users have made - not one of whom has actually contradicted the diagnosis in Hushdrop's original post! Including weird statements such as: "I learned that many folks don't care for EJ's." Er - huh? Absolutely nobody has said that here: in fact I don't recall anyone disliking the Johnson Strat on this entire Forum. A widely admired instrument.

Hushdrop, I get the strong sensation that you know perfectly well what is wrong with this guitar and what you should do about it. Do you think maybe you launched this thread in the hope that everyone would say, "Hey, don't worry about it, it's fine, keep that Strat"...?

If that's what you want to do, then by all means do it.

But crikey: enough pulling apart people who are after all only in their various ways agreeing with what you yourself pointed out about this guitar in the very first post!

Now. Enjoy that guitar - or swap it. Up to you...

Good luck - C

Ceri, I think he probably told his friend not to worry about it. he posted hoping everyone would echo his sentiments, and when it didn't happen got defensive. Otherwise I see no reason why he would challenge every opinion that the workmanship was unacceptable.

My take is: for 1900 the workmanship should not be sloppy or shoddy.

The potential for this problem to expand is there. it wasn't a strat, but I had a guitar with a similar problem. like Niki's it eventually worked itself loose. the issue is that if the neck really isn't seated properly it is in fact moving from side to side. it may in fact be very minute movement, bu it is moving. Every time it moves back and forth it will stress the wood. over time it can actually change the shape of the bolt holes. the movement will get bigger and bigger, By the time it is moving enough for you to actually notice it the damage is done.

Now from the picture I am not sure the neck will actually travel. but it is something you will have to think about.

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I'm not an expert, but I play one on the internet.

update - According to Dan Erlwine - the gap is FINE . he's a trusted source, on page 81 of his book How To Make Your Elec Guitar Play Great (the bolt-on neck section) he states that often there are gaps around the neck pocket and this allows for easy neck alignment adjustments (as DAVIDOS mentioned early on in this thread) .

Actually (according to Dan Erlwine) NOT having any sort of a gap is for the worse as it means that you are then in a difficult position to realign the neck down the line (because the gap allows for easy movement to either side) - meaning with no gap, you have to resort to actions such as scarping out paint in the neck pocket to allow for some wiggle room. Now I'm sure a huge gap or only a gap on one side would be an issue - he doesn't go into super detail on the issue.

So the case closed, Mr Erlwine is a very well known luthier, I wish I would have found this info in his book BEFORE making this post because it got out of hand (mostly comments saying to "bring it back, don't settle for that crap...." when all i asked about specifically was "Could the Pocket Gap Cause a Serios Problem in the future .

note: we did move adjust the neck slightly, per DAVIDOS' method which is also stated in the Erlwine book, now the Hi E has almost 4/46 clearance , the Lo E approx 3.75/64 (from the edge of the string to the edge of the fret) , put on new strings, set the intonation, - now Back and Black can be played over and over and over and over w/o a single slip of the 'lil E

also to those wondering why i was so defensive or whatever....

all i did was create a thread asking if anyone could tell me from their experience that the pocket gap of .013" could cause a serious problem over time

Early on people such as Ceri had strong opinions <not based on what I asked - "will a pocket gap cause problems", Cer said "your friend needs to take it back within his window of opportunity and change it for another" and "Tell him experienced players say to keep at it till he gets a winner") -

well Ceri may have meant well, but there's no way the guitar was going to be returned because my friend is an experienced player who used to be on all of the guitar blast type forums, the competition deals, he's been playing for over 20 years and has quite a few Ibanez and Gibson's <semi-hollow> ,

so a post like Ceri's not answering the original question bu instead saying to take it back, an experienced player would keep at it until he gets a winner.... - sorry but that wasn't the issue at all , it is a winner, even at TWICE the price , the only question being - will the gap cause a problem over time because it plays / sounds out of this world right now

so for me to reply to post's like Ceri's with my own subjective view isn't ok but his view is ok? hmmmmm

12bar states that the guitar has shoddy workmanship - just because of the pocket gap? According to Dan Erlwine a bit of a gap is ideal to allow for adjustments (re-aligning) the neck - see my post above for the page # of Dan's book for this exact info. Now if the guitar had a huge gap that would be diff, but it's just .013' , blown up in a picture....

So anyway, when i ask one thing and get alot of other stuff - and i reply back that , no that' stuff isn't a problem, it's cool that the guitar isn't perfect because it plays well and sounds out of this world - i have a problem for disagreeing - dude's it's (mostly) rock n roll anyway - chill out

like we have a super cool Strat here, the best me or my friend has come across possibly ever and because of a small issue lots of folks are saying "don't settle for it" - and I say , heck no, if the gap won't cause a serious issue it's staying.......on and on and on.......

enough internet, time to vanish and play b4 my friend picks this thing up

adiós

It is shoddy because the pocket isn't cut straight. a gap is one thing, sloppy cutting is another. would make me wonder if the base of the pocket is cut properly, or if the body wasn't aligned properly during cutting.

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I'm not an expert, but I play one on the internet.

Guys,
I would venture to gues that 80% of Strats/Teles, etc. have a gap of some sort... Thisi is not problem whatsoever and I look at it as a good thing because it allows the player to adjust the allignment either toward the treble side or the bass side whichever he/she favors for their style of music... Some people don't even look at the allignment and they just play their guitars...

Guitar making is not an exact science... these are made by hand and sanded individually... then on top of that there are coats of laquer/poly applied - all having an affect on the thickness of the neck as it relates to the pocket...

If you have a winner tone wise - you have a winner.

Like I said, it is hard to tell from the picture. my only concern is that the 'gap' doesn't look like a straight cut. The basic cuts are all done by machines. Not by hand. It may be finished by hand. The gap in question is only something to worry bout if the neck pocket is out of alignment.

I should have said it may be a sign of shoddy workmanship, not that it was.

If it is only a minor flaw, it is nothing, but if the neck pocket isn't square/level/aligned then it is not acceptable for a guitar in that price range.

it is probably nothing. But like I said, it is something to think about.

Hushdrops and his friend can probably see that better than us. They can look at a couple angles. I hope it is just a minor flaw. EJ strats are awesome.

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I'm not an expert, but I play one on the internet.

For the ridiculous kind of money these guitars cost, there should be NO flaws whatsoever or better even still, these guitars should instantly repair themselves!

As much as it might pain me, again, for that kind of money, I'd return it and ensure that my replacement was flawless. Yes, replacement. The guitar was improperly made and I do NOT want a REPAIRED guitar for the kind of money I overpaid for it.

For all those who unilaterally slam MIM QC at every opportunity and proclaim MIA QC superiority at every turn, what have you to say about the QC of this, "high end" MIA guitar? Hmmm?

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You dig?