Let me preface this with a little bit about myself so you know where my tastes and opinions come from. I'm 55, i played in bar bands for about 25 years, i've owned far too many guitars and amps to count including a boatload of strats of all kinds. I've been playing since around 1970. My tastes are fairly wide. i go from about VH heaviness or a bit more to gordon lightfoot and everything in between. I assure you i have a ear for tone and i fully understand what pure organic tone is. Dynamics with a very full range tone being a huge part of what i look for.

that said, i just got done playing a HSS Suhr. This is a strat clone that is so highly regarded by many that it has gained holy grail status in many players minds. My personal #1 is a MIM 50's body with a MIM 60's neck. So basically a MIM 60's with a 50's paint job....2 tone. It has a zinc block, a HB in the bridge (routed it) and 2 van zandt singles. In short i was blown away after playing the Suhr. Not by the suhr, but by my MIM that i plugged in after playing the suhr. I kid you not, mine is easily superior. It's got a much more organic sound, more range, sound better in every way i can think of. My life is as important to me as anyone's, but i would bet it on the fact that if 100 players played both blinfolded and was asked which sound better i know the majority would choose my $500 import because the difference was that big ! (barring feel, as vintage radius vs flatter is purely subjective) I don't know what else to say. i knew fender import RI's, be it MIJ or MIM were great and could be made to be fantastic when setup right with the right pups, but something told me that as expensive as suhrs are and as many people there are willing to part with a few grand, there MUST be something special that mine just couldn't have. Boy was i wrong ! I knew it in my heart, but i just couldn't understand the raves and big money ! Why would that be if they didn't have something extra? well, they don't, and it just goes to prove that 1)-people will follow each other off a cliff with very little provocation, and 2)-this should end the MIA vs MIM debate for gopd ! It does in my mind, but then that ended for me after i sold my MIA because my MIM was better at 1/2 the cost even after pups.

Which Suhr guitar were you playing?

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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

Thomas Jefferson

Finally someone that does not follow the status quo.

I also think that Mexican Stratocasters can be far superior than American stratocasters, I have both and i prefer my MIM.

I sold my 2007 White American for 100 dollars because thats how much i think they are worth JK, I got another American made in the 80's that i am keeping because i had it for so long.

Not sure what model, but i'll look next week when i have a chance to see it again. But it was as far as i could tell just a basic rosewood neck strat with HSS, but of course a flatter board and what looked like some sort of Wilkinson style bridge, tho i'll look closer at it next time.

I don't mean to say that MIM RI's are the best thats out there. But the thing is, i've long since realized what sort of influence on tone certain design detail have. And One thing i have never seen change is that a vintage spec (or very close) strat just happens to have the fullest and roundest sweetest tone a strat can have, and the tome every strat owner looks for generally. But people don't realize you cannot deviate from that much before the tone changes too much. So the reason i believe my MIM RI sounds and breathes better than that suhr is that it's designed *right*. When it comes to comparing it to MIA fenders, generally it's just a case of whiich piece of wood was blessed by nature. i've talked about MIM beating MIA many times, but i've never said they're better....i only said that once you change the tires if needed (pups, etc) then it's a 50/50 chance that the MIM's wood was better blessed by mother nature. because as i've said before, the RI's are made with the same necks and bodies as the MIA RI's use. But with the suhr it's a different story....no matter how good the wood and quality, which by the way left me wondering where that $2000-3000 goes, if the design aint right it's not going to have certain things that *right* design has.

That said, there are people who will prefer the suhr. My point is that the very organic full rich tone that a good vintage style fender strat has blows away the suhr, and the suhr is w/o a doubt trying for that tone judging by it's design. But where it goes wrong in attaining that sound is that when you try and modernize things to make them function better, they often affect the tone. Thats where the suhr IMO loses it.

I was wondering because they make several different guitar most have 1 volume 1 tone but there Classis have the 3 pots. Also I beleive they PLEK there guitars before the are finished. The ones I have fooled with had incredible detail and feel to them. The Pro series cost around 2500.

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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

Thomas Jefferson

Well, the thing is, and i don't want to sound pretentious, but i've been working on guitars for a lot of years. i did my first refret in the lates 70's and have done a lot since then. What i'm getting at is that as far as i'm concerned any good design with a straight neck is capable of incredible feel. I think if you played my #1 and 2 it might amaze you. Again, i don't want to sound pretentions but i'm just trying to make the point that i know what makes a guitar play and feel awesome, and i've never had a problem getting almost any fender to play and feel that way. The suhr i played of course felt very different than mine, and it felt fine. But i sure wasn't impressed, as any strat i've ever owned played as well or better, mostly better. It's all in how it's set up and what you like. There are tricks to give a vintage radius an action about as low as any guitar. Thats probably the one area where you get a little benefit paying that kind of money....they will set it up better than fender does. But you pay big time for that. To be honest, i'm not a fan of high end strat clones, but if i had to choose i'd go with anderson. But i'd go with fender before either ! By the way, this suhr had 3 pots.

Then I have no doubt you could have made the John Suhr play just as well. Everybody likes there setups slightly different. Sometime when I am doing them for people I have had them show me another guitar that they favor and ask to match.

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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

Thomas Jefferson

To be sure. And the suhr's feel may have been superior to someone besides myself. But my point was just that while you felt the suhr you played had amazing feel, it wasn't because it's a better guitar. Just different. My point in this thread was just that....it's NOT a better guitar and the "wow" in the title was meant to denote the fact that it SHOULD be for that kind of money. I really do believe in what i said about people following each other off a cliff. you see it in forums all the time when a few people rave about something and the next thing you know theres a feeding frenzy. And everyone raves about it till a year later. then you see this magic product in droves flooding the classifieds. The surhs i'm sure are good. But i didn't see hear or feel a single thing that i felt was beyond a good fender MIM RI or better.

Thats why I always scan the classifieds. I made good money buying up Squier 51's on close outs then selling them when there were no more. Modders specials you no and cheap.

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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

Thomas Jefferson

As the original maker of the Stratocaster, I do believe that Fender makes a really nice product, and have been doing so for over 50 years. From the Custom Shop to Made in Fullerton/Corona, to Ensenada and Japan, I feel that quality Strats come from all of these locations. I too have owned many Strats, and they all have slightly different feel and tone. That is exactly WHY I've owned, and do own, so many of them.
Leo knew whay he was doing. The reissue craze is so big because players realize that the design Leo came up with way back when is a design that has stood the test of time, and flourished.

I think you may be experiencing the same thing as me mate. Your guitar is your guitar. Nothing else will replace that for you. I have a MIM that i adore simply because of the way it feels and performs. These qualities came to it over time (14years) and through excessive use. Whether the Suhr you tried will weather the same way as your MIM remains to be seen. When i try a prospective new guitar i tried to remember what my MIM felt like new, it proved near impossible.

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No no and no

Reinforcing the majority of the points made here, I've been a Strat player for over 40 years. I sold ALL my Strats except for one: A 3 piece ash, MIM, FSR. It came with a rosewood fingerboard neck but I replaced it with a maple fingerboard neck, also MIM. Oh yea, and I threw in DiMarzio Areas 67/58/61 pickups, a blender pot and a Switchcraft jack. In all my experience with Strats, this one is by far, the best I've ever played. This also includes all those with their various degrees of pedigree.

For the curious: It is a 2007 body with a 2008 neck, both of which I bought new. It also has OEM, a tortoise pickguard and the aged white (creme looking) knobs. The pickups covers are creme DiMarzios. I also installed a Fender tortoise backplate on it too, replacing the OEM white one. (Why OEM in white is beyond me.)

The way Fender prices are going up, especially piece parts, I figure it just might be a good idea to hang on to the OEM rosewood neck. It is still in brand new condition, complete with OEM FSR sticker, nut, heads and string tree and is safely and securely put away. If I forget about it long enough, maybe after several years, I'll then take it out and sell it, fetching probably what I paid for the entire guitar!

So, what I'm saying is that in more ways than one, I literally own a Strat and a half!!

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You dig?

Martian: Sounds sweet, but "the curious" also want to know what color it is, too. Maybe you can post a pic to answer that?

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Laughing out loud with fear and hope, I have a desperate plan ...

Thats something i already put into the equasion. Trust me, i think of all possibilities when evaluating things including placebo effect. And i'm sure i already mentioned that the suhr may be the preference of some. But the reason i love mine and liked it more isn't because i'm used to it. It's because thats the sound i love and i own that guitar BECAUSE of that sound. It's not that i just bought it and got used to it. I knew what i liked from years of experimenting and i came to the conclusion my fav strat id a vintage design rosewood/alder with certain parts. But i also know that the sound i love has certain aspects that are *generally* preferred my the majority of players, and that mine has them and the suhr did not have them all. Dynamics are for example something very few players would prefer NOT to have. So if mine had better dynamics i would not call that me being used to my strat, i'd call that a aspect of the tone that is superior in mine to the suhr. See what i'm saying? Or sustain....if mine sustained better, how many players do you think would prefer the guitar that has less sustain. in other words, there are certain aspects of a guitar's tone that are generally preferred by the vast majority of players, and mine had those over the suhr, which frankly shocked me. I would have expected a lot more from a 2 or 3k guitar. I think one of the things that impressed me most is how mine has a much more spongy feel.

But like i think i've already said, the real point here is that a 2-3k strat clone should sound be very obviously better (to the general strat loving population) in the ways we all expect than a $500 fender import. Whether you prefer the suhr or mine, it's just way too close of a race considering the price difference and thats where i have to shake my head.

It is clear, Natural. I'm still trying to figure out how to post pictures here. Once I can, I'll surely will post some pictures.

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You dig?