My blue paint going on my strat is starting to orange peel. Will it sand out?

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No no and no

Yes.

Now let's argue for a page or two on what grade wet-and-dry to use! I vote for 600 grit.

But Dan Erlewine says 320. Behlen say 1000 grit. Melvyn Hiscock says 2000 grit...

- C

I already had a sneaky go round the back with 1500. Its a laborious task.
I'll try 600 and 1000 tomorrow and let you know what i think. I have a 320 wet/dry contour sanding pad i may give that a snidey go in a couple of hours.

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No no and no

Using the wet-and-dry soaking wet helps such a lot. And putting a drop of washing-up liquid in the bowl of water you soak the emery paper in seems to lubricate it nicely too.

I find I'm washing the paper off every minute or less under a running tap, and wiping the surface of the guitar frequently with kitchen paper or similar to check on progress.

Very tedious work: something good on the iPod is vital!

On the grit thing, seriously, there is such vast disagreement between the experts on which grade to use between coats I'm all ears to hear what anyone here thinks.

Cheers - C

if you use 600 go to a much finer one as soon as the peel is gone. I'd end up with no coarser than 1200 myself. More likely 1500. Otherwise the haze thats left may be very hard to fully remove and light scratches may show under certain lighting conditions. If it's nitro it'll be easy, tho poly is a biotch to say the least !

Ah, that's a point. Are we talking about corrective sanding between coats, or finish sanding?

My previous observations were based on the presumption there's more lacquer to come...?

Cheers - C

Ceri, did you remember that in the European sandpaper grading system your P1200 is the same as the North American Cami grade 600?

So your 1500 isn't too far off from Erlewine's suggestion of 600.

Niki, I believe your finish is Acrylic? So you will have to sand. I usually test with a finer grade than I think I will need, and switch to grittier , til I find one that is a bit less work, but won't scar up the finish. Then you work up to as fine as you want to. You can go less fine, if oyu are going to buff with a wheel, and rubbing compound, but if you only intend to sand you will have to go really really fine.

Sometimes a Nitro finish will settle, or lay down a bit as you let it cure, lessening the orange peel effect. i don't know if this will happen with acrulic though. Regardless on both you will have to wet sand, and polish/buff to get a truly great finish.

For wet sanding I soak the paper over night. The while sanding I use water,and like Ceri i suggest using a soapy lubricant. Many use dish soap(washing up liquid,) but I personally prefer to use a bit of 'Murphy's Oil Soap' i had a bottle of it kicking around, and I found it to be excellent.

I like to wipe of the excess slurry that forms as you sand with paper towel. I also constantly clean the sandpaper as I work, with a little brush before I re-wet it. You run the danger if driving the grit into the finish if you don't pay attention to that. this can scar it pretty bad.

Try get non loading papers if you can. They resist clogging as oyu sand. they aren't proof against it, but do make some difference. I usually start at around 800 cami grade(no idea what the equivalent grad in euro is, 600 cami=1200,) and work up in stages to 1000,1200,1500,) sometimes I am happy at 1200, and buff/polish from there, sometimes I am unhappy even at 1500, and may use a super fine like 2000, but I am usually way to lazy for all that work. So I suggest just going from 800-1200, then use a car polisher, or other similar polishing wheel.

I usually use a medium grit buffing compound, then go with a fine one (use seperate wheels(pads,) for each grade, they don't clean out really well,) and finish with a swirl remover.

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I'm not an expert, but I play one on the internet.

WHAT? This comes as complete news to me. I feel a little shaky... This calls into doubt everything I've been doing.

I notice Dan Erlewine is always talking about 320 grit for prep sanding as well as scuff sanding between coats. 320 can sometimes be a little hard to find where I am, but I came across some and have been working with it very happily. Seems to work fine - but from what you say if it's 320 in European money then it must be much courser than what Dan intends, is that right?

And for finish sanding I start at maybe 600 or 1000, then 1500 and finally 2000, before moving on to rubbing compound. Again, from what you say that 2000 must be barely adequate - yet I get good results.

What gives?

Mind you, I see that Melvyn Hiscock's book (with it's presumably European gradings of these things) is one of the prime sources that the likes of Stew-Mac offer. Does that mean that all the American kids who use that book to build from are likewise making errors over this issue?

More info, please, Twelvebar!

Cheers - C

PS How's your outdoor temperature? Sounds like we need your finishing thread urgently!

They are 2 different scales for measuring the Micron grade of sandpaper.
The grades seem to be exactly the same from coarse grit (like 60) all the way through fine and very fine (they seem to be the same numbers until 220.) then the re is only a small deviation between the numbers until we move into the super fine grades. (Cami 240 is the same as P280, but Cami 360 is equal to P600.)

The only other grades I have onhand to compare are cami 400/P800,Cami 500/P100, and Cami 600/P1200.)

my higher grade stock only has the north american grading on the label.but for the ultra fine stuff it seems the p grade uses a number 2 times the cami grade. However as this isn't consistant through out the entire grading system i have no idea how the micro fine papers (above P1200,) are graded. they may be a higher than 2 times multiple. I don't really know why the 2 scales vary in their numbering system so much, or the formulae they use to reach their numbers.
But Ceri, before you adjust your sanding habits, check and make sure which scale your paper uses. it should say right on the packaging, and/or on the backing of the paper itself.and may even have both scales on it (or even the japanese scale, which is again different,) You may indeed be using Cami graded stuff, I have no idea how universal the P-system is in Europe.

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I'm not an expert, but I play one on the internet.

Twelvebar: so when in your previous post you said you may only sand to 1200 before moving on to the buffing; or you may go as far as 2000 - were you talking American or European grades of wet-and-dry?

...Gotta get to bed - but gotta know the answer, too!

- C

PS My stuff's all graded P... Knew that without looking - but I've just been and checked anyway. I think it's pretty universal here.

Ive completely arsed it all up anyhow.
Strip it and start again
Pretty sure im just not cut out for this.

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No no and no

I prefer P-grade papers. They have more consistent grit, CAMI papers can have occasional large pieces of grit, and can mar your finish. A friend who does cabinetry tells me I should be looking for Japanese graded papers, he says they are way better.

I haven't done any refinishing for a long time, but what i did was buy a couple grades of paper in each category. Well, I never bought any of the coarse, or fine. But a couple in the very fine range, (up to P-280,) a couple in the extra and super fine range(up to p-800,) These prior I only used in the prep-work phase. levelling the wood, and then the more fine, for the whiskering. By whiskering I mean the phase (really called 'raising the grain',)by which you dampen a rag, wring it out as dry as you can, then wipe the surface of the wood, and let it dry. What this does is hydrate any ragged fibres left by the tears the prep sanding left behind. these tiny fibres will then stiffen up, and stand up, like when you put a limp celery stalk or a carrot in water, and it hardens up. After the wood dries, you go over it with a pretty fine paper, and very very lightly, you only want to get these whiskers, and not cut past into new wood, which would mean dampening the wood again. my buddy says to ideally do this a couple times.

For any of the post paint sanding I would say to stay away from CAMI grade paper, because of the random big chunks of grit. So all the 800 + grit was most likely P-Grade.But I got it to a decent shine, then I used a handheld car polisher. Also used a buffing ball thing that fit on a drill to do the areas by the horns. A guy could sand his life away and never achieve the sheen you get with a polisher. I would never switch to the polisher before sanding to at least 1000, and really almost never before sanding to 1200, because you don't want too wide of scratch marks, and you want to limit the time the power polisher/buffer is on the finish, as it heats it up a lot, and can distort it, or even burn through if oyu aren't careful, or have it on the finish too long.

its been a while since I did a refinish, but I think I used all P-grade papers, but the finest stuff may have been CAMI. truthfully I was unaware of the grading differences back when I did my old finishes, and it was only my friend , the cabinet maker,who pointed it out to me when I was discussing my Ibanez with him.

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I'm not an expert, but I play one on the internet.

Don't be discouraged Niki.
This stuff is all about patience, and I fully expect to bollocks up the finish i am shooting for on my Ibanez at least once, maybe more, before i am happy with it. i haven't done a guitar in a long time, so i need to get in practice. I have a huge stack of scrap to do test sprays on too. I will most likely have a couple squares of wood, that have a nearly identical finish to my guitar by the time I am done.

I am prepping about 5 pieces, that I will finish in the same steps, and schedule(though the guitar body will be the last of each sequence,) and I will be discarding any as I go if I am unhappy with the result. That way I will always (I hope,) have at least 1 or 2 scraps that are very close to my guitar, in texture, and everything to test out every step. I will not spray on the guitar at any stage until I am confident in the results i attain beforehand on my scrap. I look at the pieces of scrap as rehearsal for the gig(which is the guitar itself.)

Ceri is a freak of nature to have gotten everything right on the first try!!!

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I'm not an expert, but I play one on the internet.

I started sanding the peel out got down to the white undercoat and it was still there. Also chunks were diveting up so its back to the wood now. Do i really want to throw more money at it? Im going to leave it a while and think on it.

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No no and no

It sounds like you reliced it.

So I guess you are done!

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Member #26797
My other guitar is a Strat.