Niki the only thing I have seen about Gibson headstocks and legality pertains to the shape. I doubt you could get a patent or trademark on an angle. and in fact Gibson uses different angles on different guitars.

17 degrees on Les Pauls Sg's and ES 335's
14 degrees on Firebirds and explorers and i believe 14 gegrees on Epiphone versions of the SG and Les Paul. I need to borrow some friends axes to measure this.

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I'm not an expert, but I play one on the internet.

Twelvebar. The headstock data you gave leads me to believe either of our theories more furvently than i did before. I never realized previous to reading your post that the LP is the only maple capped gibson model in regular production. Note it sounds different to V's, Xplorers and SG's. Which all share the set neck but not the maple cap or headstock angle. No doubt glued necks sound different, whether that lends itself to what i hear in a lespaul is a different matter though. It cant be mass or weight i've played xplorers that were real back wreckers much heavier than most LP's and noticed no extra lespaul sustain. They all gave more sustain than fender guitars, but i cant attribute all of the lespaul sound to the glue. I'd offer that neck and body being of the same material plays more of a part.

Like i said before unless i start building the things im never going to know for sure and am more than open to the idea of the setneck being the cause. I just dont see it that way at the moment.

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No no and no

Gosh! Didn't quite mean to throw the cat amongst the pigeons this way! Still, it's all good clean fun, huh?

Regarding the rigidity issue, I'd respectfully suggest you may have it the wrong way around, firstrat:


Try this little experiment. Take a smallish cereal bowl or similar. Stretch an elestic band across it, give it a pluck and listen to the decay (sustain) of the note.

Now stretch the elastic band between your thumb and second finger so's it's sounding length is the same as when it was on the bowl and so it produces the same pitched note. Pluck it and compare the decay to the previous time.

Unless you've got hands made of steel you will find that the finger-held version produces a shorter decay: it sounds a bit deader. That's because there is less rigidity in the system so the vibrations die away faster.

On the other hand, the note has more of a "twangy" character on the fingers than on the ceramic bowl.

And that's what we find comparing Les Pauls with Strats. The greater rigidity of the LP's set neck transmits vibration around the system better and so it sustains longer. The tiny bit of "give" in the bolt-on Strat neck absorbs vibration a little faster so it sustains less - but has a twangier sound.

At any rate, that's been my absolutely consistent experience comparing Strats and Les Pauls. I'm not interested in rating one over the other: they just have their different characteristics.

Without a shadow of doubt other things such as the overall mass of each guitar and the different timbers they are made from affect the tone of the note - its "timbre". Those also bring about further differences between Gibsons and Fenders: above I am merely talking about the relation of rigidity to sustain.

That's my view, anyhow!

Cheers - C

I agree with you ceri, even the design shape can change resonant tone of a guitar. Like said it is the sum total together that makes resonance. Even identical designs vary do to wood character in body and neck are never the same from one to the next.

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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

Thomas Jefferson

Hi CV: though this topic often gets a bit heated, doesn't it? It usually ends up with some kid saying that his suchandsuch model guitar sustains for years so nah!

Much more interesting would be if Mr Tremolo Arm (the OP) feels like trying out Niki's B string test on his two Strats. Audible differences in tone and resonance between apparently identical guitars is the most fascinating issue here. The difference between individual lumps of timber.

That's why we have to demo several (or dozens) of Strats before finding the one that speaks to us, isn't it?

Cheers - C

Certainly no pigeons or cats here. I'm staying open to suggestion on this one and respect the opinions of learned online acquaintances.

Unless ofcourse you refuse to accept that its the jackplug and strapbutton locations that give that lespaul sound (JK)

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No no and no

Hehehe! Since I discovered the vital difference in tone between chrome and nickel jack sockets on Strats I take that issue with exactly the appropriate amount of seriousness...

- C

Thats right on the button ceri. They can look like identical twins and speak so different. Fender can replicate the cut and feel of the neck on Claptons Blackie Strat but they cant replicate the wood the original has or its charactor aquired by it over time. Mother Nature's name is not Fender.

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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

Thomas Jefferson

Ceri

I did try the test but frankly my results were inconclusive. To me both Strats resonated the same (both in terms of vibration strengh and lenght of vibration). I couldn't really identify any difference in the vibration, yet one Strat (the one with the maple board) is definately louder than the other (rosewood board). But when I compare them to the LP, the LP is much, much louder than both the Strats.

Not sure where this leads us... My original question was "Does resonance equal loudness"? And if so, is an LP always more resonant than a Strat (given that it is louder).

I am still unsure of the answer....
But very interesting discussion overall

We did get a bit diverted, didn't we?

Very simply then: resonance is just a function of vibration. Vibration creates sound. So a lot of resonance brings about a lot of sound.

Different words for sort of the same thing. Musical terminology can be a bit like that, sometimes.

Though you wouldn't quite use the words resonance and volume interchangeably. Rather, you'd say that a particularly resonant object (such as an acoustic guitar body) would give rise to higher volume - when that resonance was activated by the introduction of energy (the plucking of the string).

Does that help?

Cheers - C

Nothing helps, Ceri. Even crazier questions are yet to come..stay tuned.

My head is spinning with all this........I'll just pull out one of my guitars and just enjoy playing.........

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"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them."-John Wayne