Hey Folks,
I went out this morning and bought a Strat body that I'm going to use for a project. Thru the email I was told (and this copy & paste from the email) "the alder body is actually a fender american body" and that "the body needs to be refinished totally". Now first and foremost, I -seriously- doubt if this is a genuine Fender, American or otherwise as the first thing I noticed is that there wasn't any kind of stamp in the neck pocket. The neck pocket does have some of the newer paint from a -very- poor refinish in there, but it's still clean enough that any actual factory stamp should show thru. I asked him about this and he reiterated that it was a "pre 1980 Fender American Strat" and when I asked the guy how he knew it was an American he replied "because I bought it new". This leads me to the second reason I'm fairly sure this was bogus is because this guy would have had to of been a very young kid...if he was alive at all to have bought a pre-'80 anything new as the guy only looked to be in his mid to late 20s! LOL!!! Not impossible, but unlikely. In addition he also stated in the email that he had "the factory fender left hand neck that came on that guitar as well" and this is certainly -NOT- a left hand body.

Now before I continue let me also say that I only payed $25 for this body so I'm not really complaining here. I suspected the guy was lying thru his teeth even as I payed for the body. Now that I've sanded thru the horrid finish that was on this thing, it looks like it could be pretty decent and is certainly worth the $25. That said, I'm trying to determine if there could be -any- truth at all in this guys claim. It doesn't really matter that much, but it would be nice to know.

So...again there's no numbers (or anything else) in the neck pocket. Since this body has been refinished (again -very- badly) I supposed it's possible that perhaps they got sanded off with the original finish. It does appear to be alder...at least 3 pieces actually. The neck pocket is 2 3/16, not 2 1/14 and it is a very nice fit with my Squire Standard neck (which is why I went ahead and bought it). Without any numbers however is there -any- way to really make a positive ID on this body? Here's some pics...maybe someone with more experience and a sharp eye can find something here (such as something from the tooling perhaps).











As you can see here...no numbers...





The fact that the guy only wanted $25 for a "pre-1980 American Strat body" is also very suspicious. Since there aren't any identifying marks on this thing, it could just be that he knew he wasn't going to get much or it could be that as he told me, he and his wife are moving and he's just unloading a bunch of old stuff so that he didn't have to pack it...but still... A lot of stuff here that leads up to flat out lies.

Either way, again I'm not really complaining...I think with some work this is going to be pretty decent when I'm done, but if someone can see something here, it would at least satisfy my curiosity.

Thank you for any opinions you guys can offer...I'm grateful!

Peace,
Jim

HSH pickup routing its definately not pre1980 or to the best of my knowledge 85. The output jack shape is wrong, notice its teardrop shaped as opposed to the usuall oval. Also the pickup routing looks shallow. I have my MIM stripped and undercoated at the moment so its equivalent to a sanded guitar. It measures 21mm deep on the pickup route and 38mm on the control cavity route.

Bargain for $25/£18 though.

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No no and no

Hi lomitus: first, ditto to everything Niki said.

For extra evidence, look at those curvy corners joining each of the three pickup cavities. Very un-Fender. Further, the bridge cavity in the top is too wide, front to back. And underneath the overhang that the top creates above the block cavity is too small. And there's a slight overhang on the front side of the cavity as well as the back. Haven't seen a Fender like that. And the routing of that block cavity is poor: the short sides are not flat and show the circular form of the router bit. I don't remember seeing even a Squier like that.

Also, I don't recall seeing a neck pocket with that central tooling/hanging hole going all the way through to the other side. And the seams are crooked. I can't say that Fender have never done that - but I can't recall seeing it, even when the seams were to be hidden beneath a solid finish. I feel the body contour is rather mean, too. It ought to reach further towards the spring cavity - though Fender have done that different ways over the years, so that one ain't conclusive.

As a matter of fact, an American Series Strat of mine does have a moderately tear shaped jack cavity. But as Niki has noted, nothing like as slim and pointy as that one.

None of that need be conclusive on it's own. You could say to each of those points, "Fender did it this way on this particular occasion". But cumulatively...

It ain't a Fender. For $25 - who cares?

Finish it nicely and build a good guitar. Everything I've mentioned will be hidden by the hardware and not an issue, visually. Just don't put a Fender logo on it!

On the other hand, that fella bare-facedly lied to you. What you do about that is up to you...

Good luck - C

Ceri has covered just about everything!

However, there's one more thing you might check. Measure the spread of the six trem screw holes. See if it's an "American" spread or "Import" spread.

_________________
Member #26797
My other guitar is a Strat.

First thank you to everyone for the comments. I'm guessing the only thing this guy was truthful about was that the body is actually alder. I've been some research on my own here and so far everything everyone is saying makes sense.



I was going to ask about this as I have 2 different 6 point trems that I compared on this thing this even. The one is off a Charvel body I had gotten some years back as another project and the other I -think- came off a "Synsonics" sort-of-strat-clone which got trashed for firewood. Unfortunately I have no idea which bridge is which however the one that lines up really close (although not perfect) is also the same spacing as my old Lotus Strat copy...sorry if that's less than precise or scientific! LOL!!! I'll also compare it with my MIM when I get a chance...who knows. Do you (or anyone) know the hole spacing for an American body bridge from around that era? Did the hole spacing change from era to era?

Thanks,
Jim

Hi Jim: I had a strange premonition we were going to get onto those six trem screws even before Orville mentioned it! So last night I noted them down on a piece of paper ready...

Fender's measurement is 56 mm from center to center of the outer of the six screws. However, on Squiers they often (always?) use a 52 mm screw spacing, precisely so that upgrading a Squier is problematic, in order to encourage people to buy a better MIM or MIA Strat instead.

What I don't know is which of those screw spacings other manufacturers use. I suspect it will be the 56 mm one at least on instruments of moderate to higher quality, simply because that's the one available on the majority of good quality bridges.

You can buy bridges with either screw spacing - though you are fairly limited for choice with the 52 mm one. I wonder which you have?

BTW: if those screw holes don't seem to be precise in their spacing, there's more than one bridge you can buy to allow for it. Such as this good quality and reasonably priced Wilkinson. If you look at the screw holes you'll see they are oval. In theory, that's to help prevent "binding" to facilitate better return after vibrato: but it also gives you a handy bit of play in the screw spacing:

http://www.wdmusic.com/wilkinson_5_1_ho ... hrome.html

Cheers - C

Thanks for the specs on the bridge measurements. I just checked downstairs and she measures out at 52 1/2 mm from the center of the 2 outside holes. Definitely NOT american/vintage, but could be Mexican...although again the tooling certainly isn't consistent with my MIM which I've had apart MANY times.

Thank you for the link on the Wilkinson bridge...I"ve actually looked at those before (thru Carvin I think?). I really haven't decided what I'm going to do for a bridge yet...for that matter, I haven't even decided how I'm going to do the new finish yet. I was going to do a classic 2 tone sunburst but it is a 3 part body with visible lines -and- there is a "knot" towards the longer horn that isn't going to be covered by the pickguard or anything. If I do a solid color, that's not going to be an issue but for a burst...I'm not sure yet. Either way, I'll probably decide on a bridge once I've done the finish...I'm going to use lacquer either way so I have a couple of months before I need to decide .



The one thing that is bugging me the more I think about all of this is simply -why- the guy would lie about all of this in the first place. If the guy had of been asking $100 or $150 or something, then yea...I could see him trying to BS about it saying it was an American body (and I would NOT have bought it) but for $25...??? The guy could have easily said "I don't know what it's from and I don't even know what kind of wood it is" and it still would have easily been worth $25. For the money, the song and dance here just really doesn't make any sense at all.

So not only are you a woodworking magician, you are a fortune teller!

Thanks for filling in the details that I left out.



Yes, no way it's American Fender. Narrow spacing! I suspected as much.

I guess I'm a fortune teller too!

_________________
Member #26797
My other guitar is a Strat.

Well for those folks following this, once I was sure beyond a doubt that the body wasn't a Fender, American or otherwise, I emailed the guy who sold it to me who kept insisting that it was...told him about the bridge spacing issues, the routing issues, the body contour, etc., and here was his response;

"the dealer I got it from sold used guitars,.... it had a left handed neck on it, from an american strat, and that was all I knew... I never ran the serial or measured anything, and the bridge that used to be on it, and the saddles were fender... I never had a reason to question him, because I had done a lot of buying from him, and I am very sorry. I did not mean to lie you, that is all the info I had on it, and that's what I waas told it was when I bought it. I'm not into lying to people, or screwing anyone over. I would even buy it back for what you paid for it, and drive to where you are to pick it up if it isn't what I said it was. I did not know, and I apologize. Is there anything I can do to make it right?"


So at least part of the mystery is solved and the guy 'fessed up. At this point I will probably never know what the body was actually from...probably a lower end import such as a Cort or an Ibanez or something similar. It does indeed appear to be alder though...between the wood grain and the body weight...after being stripped it came in at about 4 lbs 6 ounces which is also consistent with alder. So I think it will still make a fine sounding instrument once she's done. I still haven't decided on a finish yet...I may go with the 2 tone sunburst anyways and all the body flaws can be considered as "character"...I'll probably decide that this weekend.

Anyways, thanks to everyone for your help in solving this mystery. If nothing else I learned a few things about ID'ing vintage instruments.

Peace,
Jim

Hi Jim: so possibly someone put a Fender neck and some parts on another maker's body - presuming the decal on that neck's headstock to be genuine. We know how easily that is faked! Anyhow: it is perfectly possible the guy didn't knowingly mislead you - and regardless of who made it the body will function fine. So who cares?

Just one more note on the above: to the best of my knowledge Mexican Strats use the same bridge dimensions as American ones - that 56 mm screw spacing. I'm afraid if yours is around 52 mm that may be beyond the tollerances of that Wilkinson bridge I linked to, and others like it.

If you want to use the same screw holes you are going to need to find a 52 mm bridge.

Or fill and redrill the screw holes. In that case this is one situation where it is necessary to fill with wood, not putty, if you ever want the new bridge to function properly. New screw holes will break into the old ones and resulting firmness of the screws in the body will be compromised.

You need to get a small diameter dowel, drill each screw hole out to the same diameter, insert lengths of dowel into each hole, finish flush to the surface of the body and eventually redrill your bridge holes in their correct new positions.

Don't be daunted: all of that sounds a lot more hassle than it really is. And you'll sure feel like you earned this guitar when it's finished!

Cheers - C

Don't you need to use a drill press to accurately place those new bridge holes?

_________________
Member #26797
My other guitar is a Strat.

It would help - but probably a pillar drill rather than a drill press, which you might find wouldn't reach to the middle holes (depending on it's individual design, I suppose).

Though actually, since the dowels get finished off flush to the timber I guess it ain't vital if they're absolutely vertical or not.

As to the six screws, well, that's another matter...

Cheers - C

Hey Ceri,
I agree this was definitely a "partscaster". Considering it had a lefty neck, I would venture to guess that someone was trying to build a "Hendrix Strat" at one point or something. As to the headstock being faked...it's certainly possible. No real way to know for sure there either but...I didn't buy the neck so it doesn't really matter to me! LOL!!! I am willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt in that he probably wasn't trying to deliberately be deceptive (and I told him this in my reply) and either way I'm happy with the body considering what I payed and that's the important thing.

I actually measured my '96 MIM yesterday and it is also the 52mm...not the 2 7/32 of Americans so AmStd and MIM are different...at least with the older MIMs (no idea about the newer MIM's but I would assume they are the same as my '96). Also I'm going to be using a Squire Standard neck on this thing when she's finished so the string spacing will be consistent either way with the 52mm. That said, again I'm not terribly concerned about the bridge at this point for this new body...I still have -a lot- of sanding to finish first! LOL! Considering what it is, I'm even thinking about going with a hard tail instead of a trem...I've been looking at the Schaller's for a while now. I have one on my P-bass clone and I -love- it and it's not like I really need another guitar with a trem anyways. I've also been looking at a new Kahler model too that's pretty interesting...it's -not- actually a trem but it has fine tunes like a trem. I've always loved the Kahler I put on my old Kramer so... Either way, lots of possibilities here.

Also, I've not only done a number of refinishes at this point, but I've also cut a few of my own bodies...even if I were to try and go with a different neck and an Am/vintage trem, I know how to plug holes and such...not a problem there at all. In other words, this isn't my first refinish by any means .

This weekend I'm going to try and get the finish sanding done and get the body sealed and ready for the new finish and as I'm doing that I'll be thinking about where I want to go with a bridge.





Typically yes...and I do have a drill press (and 2 table saws, band saw, 2 miter saws....I do a fair bit of woodworking). That said, you can also make a jig that will allow you to use a hand drill with some care. In fact you might even be able to buy one from Stew Mac (or elsewhere)...I know they sell jigs for drilling out tuning peg holes in the headstocks so they may very well sell them for the bridges too. Of course if you can't find a jig and have to make your own, for that you will need a drill press .


Peace,
Jim

I'm not sure if this is what you were getting at but something I learned the first time I tried to drill for a Strat bridge was that the placement and alignment of the screws for the bridge is critical (hence the need for a jig or something). If even one of those screws goes in at a slight angle, it can cause the bridge to bind during trem usage and it will certainly cause issues with tuning stability.

I learned this one the hard way...first time I did it I was "less than precise" about drilling it and ended up plugging and re-drilling because the trem would literally get "stuck" on the screws...I'd push the trem bar down...and it would stay there! LOL! Sometimes ya gotta learn things the hard way I guess.

That said, as you said before it's not really as complicated as it sounds but it does take patience and the right tools. Not a job for a hand drill and a person who drinks way too much coffee to say the least.

L8r,
Jim

You can fit the wilkinson trem on 52mm spacing. I had one on that mexican squire series body. The trem from that went onto the kavanagh sapele body that then had the wilkinson fitted to it. At worst you leave out 1 screw, I didnt although it was tight. Otherwise its a squire bridge, not recommended for a guitar you may become serious about.

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No no and no