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Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:05 pm
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Increasing the mass of the headstock end does affect tone. Much as i hate the fatfinger It does make a difference. Yes it is subtle but if you hold it against the headstock, strike a string then remove the fatfinger you can clearly hear the tonal depth become shallower. If you use it to clamp a lump of metal to the headstock i.e a old tremblock it makes a marked difference. So if you get a set of really heavy tuners theres no reason they wont make the same difference.

Anyone remember the brass plates they used to sell to fit onto the headstock to acheive the same thing?

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Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:14 pm
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nikininja wrote:
Increasing the mass of the headstock end does affect tone. Much as i hate the fatfinger It does make a difference. Yes it is subtle but if you hold it against the headstock, strike a string then remove the fatfinger you can clearly hear the tonal depth become shallower. If you use it to clamp a lump of metal to the headstock i.e a old tremblock it makes a marked difference. So if you get a set of really heavy tuners theres no reason they wont make the same difference.

Anyone remember the brass plates they used to sell to fit onto the headstock to acheive the same thing?

Anytime you change the Mass on either end be it the Trem or on the Neck you will change the way the strings are going to vibrate. Thats why when you change a neck it can sound very different because the mass weight of the necks can be different and react as such. Change a soft V to a chunky D and hear the difference.

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Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:34 pm
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01GT eibach wrote:
It is doubtful that changing tuners would make any noticable change with regards to sustain. Also -- in my opinion -- the MIM Std tuners are of very reasonable quality, and not at all junk.

Okay, I guess I stand corrected ... going to some "high mass" tuners will increase your sustain. Personally, I have a hard time with that one. But if that is what the collective wisdom says, I'll go along. But my "not junk" assertion still stands.
8)

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Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:50 pm
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More weight at the head does w/o a doubt increase sustain. One way is to get heavier tuners if the current ones aren't very heavy. But for me i find that the extra sustain isn't worth it because the trade-off is that the heavier the head, the more compressed the tone and the dynamics go right out the door. If you only play high gain heavy stuff that could be good. But if you value touch sensitivity go for LIGHTER tuners. I actually removed the heavy tuner buttons from my acoustic and replaced them with pearloid plastic ones. the guitar because more sensitive and dynamic which is one of the most desirable aspects of a acoustic.


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Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 4:45 pm
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01GT eibach wrote:
01GT eibach wrote:
It is doubtful that changing tuners would make any noticable change with regards to sustain. Also -- in my opinion -- the MIM Std tuners are of very reasonable quality, and not at all junk.

Okay, I guess I stand corrected ... going to some "high mass" tuners will increase your sustain. Personally, I have a hard time with that one. But if that is what the collective wisdom says, I'll go along. But my "not junk" assertion still stands.
8)


You'll get no argument from me about their quality mate. I used em for 14 years till they wore out. Thats fine performance for tuners on a £200 guitar.
On the sustain note the difference is hard to hear. The weight of tuners has to be quite a bit to be noticable. I do recommend clamping a lump of metal on though. It does make a marked difference and yes increases the natural compression effect, but also gets rid of dead spots. With all things guitar there seems to be a bit of a trade off these days.

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Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:08 pm
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You can assert all you want if it makes you feel better. I'm not going to argue the point. Its my opinion from having to replace tuners on multiple MIM's from the '90s. But if you like em' Im happy for you. :)


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Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:06 pm
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bluesdown wrote:
You can assert all you want if it makes you feel better. I'm not going to argue the point. Its my opinion from having to replace tuners on multiple MIM's from the '90s

Dude, we're cool. I am not saying you or your opinion are wrong. My opinion is only different. And - for what it is worth - I am basing my opinion on my '04 tuners and yours is based on '90s tuners. And - after all - it's not like we are arguing about solutions to world hunger or something. Regardless, I respect your opinion either way.
8)

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Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:53 pm
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cvilleira wrote:
Well if you have a MIM Strat just take the 5 oz. bridge block out and put a 10 oz, Callaham block in and you will notice a difference.

What about the tremolo block from www.guitarfetish.com? It's $40 cheaper, but is still made of solid steel. Will this work good as a replacement?


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Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:18 pm
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To summarise everything that's been said: the more mass we add at either end of the strings the better sustain we achieve. Making sure that neck joint is as tight as possible will help too by optimising rigidity in the system (so long as you don't strip the screw holes).

However. One thing often comes at the cost of another. A fundamental part of the Fender sound is "twang". And twang is generally considered to be an opposite property to sustain. Twang is part and parcel of the decay of the note. Lengthen that decay and you lose twang.

So for example, bent steel saddles: less mass, less sustain - more traditional twang.

I'm no purist, but as the years pass I find I'm ever more satisfied to use a Les Paul for a Les Paul sound, and search for a classic Strat sound from a Strat.

No rights or wrongs. Just something else to throw into the mix...

Cheers - C


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Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:15 pm
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Where the fun of finding that Happy medium comes into the picture.

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