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Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:20 am
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I think it would do well... There is not a HH Strat made. Making a MIM HH model with a Floyd that sells for $750-800 would clean up. Whether it is a signature model or not is irrelevent.

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Last edited by 01GT eibach on Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:25 am
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But from a production stand point, you have to think "Ok, if we make these, how many can we sell? 100? 1000? 10,000? How many do we make at first? Is it worth making another process and assembly team for this product? Are we really going to sell that many to make up that cost? And what if we make 10,000 and sell 300? We're screwed, our bonuses go down, they cut that guitar after a year. And we're still down $XXX from making all these things."

I'm just not a fan for making a ton of signature lines. Signature guitars are basic guitars that someone famous customized to their liking. If someone want the same thing, they can easily do that all themselves too. I don't think there should be 1000 flavors of strats for every single little nuance of playing anyone that might possibly want to buy a guitar could ever think up.

That's just me...


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Post subject: Re: Mick Mars Signature Strat
Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:39 am
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dbone wrote:
When will we see a Mick Mars signature strat?


Who?

Personally I never thought that Yngwie really deserved to have a sig series, but at least Ive heard of him! Clapton, SRV, Buddy Guy, David Gilmore...I've heard of those guys too! Mick Mars? I would associate that name more with a chocolate bar.

I'm not trying to be rude here (well...maybe a little this time) but just because someone is your favorite guitar player, doesn't make them note worthy enough to warrant a signature series. Even for a person who's otherwise an incredible musician who has played nothing but Strats their entire career...if they've never made a notable contribution to the music or the instrument, I'm sorry but how does such a person really warrant a signature series instrument?

Just my $.02 worth,
Jim


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Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:56 am
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Okay, it look likes we are back to the signature model as a lifetime-achievement-award thing ... yet again. Does he deserve it??
I don't care. It is not about him, as much it is about the guitar. The guitar, the guitar, the guitar. Say it with me if you need to.

If you think we want this thing 'cos we are such huge Motley fans, you are hugely mistaken. Mick Mars plays a uniquely configured Strat that Fender does not sell ... double fat with a Floyd. Since Mars is a loyal Strat player who plays this configuration almost exclusively, it makes a lot of sense to create it as a sig model. However, if Fender wants to go off and create it as a non-sig guitar, that is cool, too. It is not the Mick Mars sig on the headstck that we covet, it is the guitar.

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Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:53 am
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nicholsoni wrote:
To me the issue is not just that Mick Mars could sell a lot of guitars, but it would also offer a strat with 2 HB's which is sorely lacking in Fenders lineup.

I think that Motley Crue's sound made available to the consumer would be a great success.

That plus I think that Mick Mars sound is great and very distinctive in modern rock.

Lastly he is not a shredder.


Is a Strat with Buckers still a Strat? Just do like everybody used to do and modify your own. Production cost for a Strat with humbuckers and a Floyd Rose trem would require a lot of work. It's not like dropping in different pups and bending a whammy bar. You won't get one for 6-800 bucks either. His sound and playing style didn't exactly make him a household name.
I agree, way too many sig models and they used to be something like a badge of honor. Now it's all marketing.
Where's Buddy Holly's??????????


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Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:53 am
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01GT eibach wrote:
Okay, it look likes we are back to the signature model as a lifetime-achievement-award thing ... yet again. Does he deserve it??
I don't care. It is not about him, as much it is about the guitar. The guitar, the guitar, the guitar. Say it with me if you need to.

If you think we want this thing 'cos we are such huge Motley fans, you are hugely mistaken. Mick Mars plays a uniquely configured Strat that Fender does not sell ... double fat with a Floyd. Since Mars is a loyal Strat player who plays this configuration almost exclusively, it makes a lot of sense to create it as a sig model. However, if Fender wants to go off and create it as a non-sig guitar, that is cool, too. It is not the Mick Mars sig on the headstck that we covet, it is the guitar.


Well if you Google "Strat Double Fat Floyd" you actually get quite a few hits...apparently Fender did make a Strat like this and it's simply been discontinued which tells me they weren't that terribly popular...certainly not enough to warrant a signature series, Mr. Mars Bar or otherwise. Either way, apparently it's not that rare since I was able to find references to one with a 30 second internet search. Also, while this individual may have played "this configuration almost exclusively", that also does not warrant any kind of "tribute" model...sorry dude.

I would also have to add that even though you say "it's not about him" your rather adamant response that he's a "loyal Strat player", that he plays "this configuration almost exclusively" and that -to you- "it makes a lot of sense to create it as a sig model" ...this all seems to be quite contrary to your statement. If it's all about "the guitar", that's all fine and dandy, but your comments seem to contradict that rather decisively.

As you say, a Signature Series instrument doesn't necessarily have to be a "life time achievement award". So let's look at it then for what it really is...a marketing ploy. Let's look at the Clapton sig for example. Sure, there are some folks who buy one of these because they really do like this instrument...they like the way it plays, the way it sounds, the way it feels, etc.. Such folks would have bought this instrument regardless of who's name was actually on the headstock. I do fully acknowledge this. Of course, a person who likes the way this instrument feels/plays/sounds, could also just as easily assemble one from parts (or have it assembled for them) for a lot less money. The point is however there are just as many, if not considerably more, people who bought this model, perhaps without ever even playing one, because it was the "Eric Clapton Signature Series"...they are either Clapton fans or perhaps even under the misguided impression that if they buy this guitar, they're going to "sound like Clapton". I know that personally when these sig's first came out, I was all excited. I've always been a big Clapton fan and when I was younger and perhaps a bit more impulsive, had I of had the money, I very well might have done the same thing. Of course I finally played one and was -terribly- disappointed...I thought the thing just felt awful! To me it was like someone bolted a "Louiseville Slugger" to a guitar body....eeewwweeeee! LOL!

The point is that a Signature Series instrument is, in part, a marketing ploy...another way for Fender (or others) to sell instruments, usually at a premium price. As such, they are typically going to want folks that are well known and/or quite famous not to mention rather iconic to the instrument. Ok...yea...I've heard of Motle Crew. I'm certainly not a fan (many people aren't) and again I've never heard of this Mick Mars. Very simply, regardless of the configuration that this person apparently favors, his name is not going to sell a lot of instruments. It's not going to be all that profitable for Fender...so what's the point? Just because someone on their forum "thinks it's time"? Yea...right.

That being the case, since you'd be willing to pay the premium price for a "Signature Series" anyways for that specific configuration, then just spend the extra dinero and contact the Custom Shop and have them build one for you. You could even just build one yourself...get yourself a Fat Strat with a Floyd (easy to find), if it's not already then route it out for a second humbucker and there ya go! For that matter, you could even just get a Jackson or an old Kramer of the same configuration, put a Strat neck on it and just bang your head to your heart's content!

That really didn't seem that terribly difficult to me and I'm not really sure why it was such a dilemma but either way problem solved :D.


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Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:19 pm
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Well said lomitus, well said. :wink:


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Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:46 pm
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63supro wrote:
Well said lomitus, well said. :wink:

Oh, yes, Lomitus ... well said, dear boy. Yes, so well said. All we need is a 'golf clap' sound effect, and - golly - your post would have been just perfect...

And - here is an update - nearly ALL of the non-Frender Strat-type guitars are double fat with trems. Hmmm ... that sounds like a lot of untapped market to me. Regardless, I don't see why the discussion has degraded to complete non-acceptance of others' opinions. My God, this is supposed to be a Fender community. It is even supposed to be fun. I guess just not for some...

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Post subject: Re: Mick Mars Signature Strat
Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:18 pm
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lomitus wrote:
dbone wrote:
When will we see a Mick Mars signature strat?


Personally I never thought that Yngwie really deserved to have a sig series, but at least Ive heard of him!
Jim


I disagree. Why would Yngwie not deserve to have a sig series? It's one of Fender's top signature sales. There's not a production model out there that comes stock with a full scalloped neck and to top it off, sells for the same price as other sig models in that range.


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Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:25 pm
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Opinions are great as long as they're yours I guess. What he said was well said. I've never seen a company put out so many sig guitars in my whole life even in the Squire line. Avril Lavigne Teles?

There have been many bucker STYLE Strats made, maybe not by Fender, but traditionally they don't sell to people who want Strats. The market isn't there. If it was, Fender would have nine million variations of it. Think about.

Don't take things so personally. I'm old school and have modified my guitars many, many tines in the past 40 years I've been playing. My amps too.


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Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:07 pm
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01GT eibach wrote:
63supro wrote:
Well said lomitus, well said. :wink:

Oh, yes, Lomitus ... well said, dear boy. Yes, so well said. All we need is a 'golf clap' sound effect, and - golly - your post would have been just perfect...


While I may have made few quips towards Mick Mars, I didn't think I had actually gotten all that directly rude with you personally. All I did was provide a few personal opinions of my own and when you went off about it, I backed those opinions with a few facts and then someone chose to agree with me. It's a shame you couldn't be as mature about it.

I will say that I am grateful for the "dear boy" comment...at 43 years old, it's been a while since anyone's called me "boy". Was kind of nice :D. Ya know you're getting older when you're actually hoping the lady at the checkout will card you for a six pack of beer! LOL!!!

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And - here is an update - nearly ALL of the non-Frender Strat-type guitars are double fat with trems. Hmmm ... that sounds like a lot of untapped market to me.


While I'm sure that you must be a marketing professional of some sort to make this claim, I'm forced to agree with 63supro's assessment. I bought my Strats because I wanted -Strats-, not a Fender knock off of a Jackson or Kramer. I have nothing against Kramers or Jacksons...in fact I own a Kramer (original New Jersey, not one of the newer Gibson models) but in my mind a Strat is simply iconic of a certain style and sound and I think this holds true for most folks (clearly not all, but most). The fact, as already has been stated, that Fender has made "double fats" and has discontinued them, seems to support this. As 63supro also said, if they were really that big of a seller and there was really a big demand for them, Fender would already be milking it for all that it's worth. As has also already been said, it's not that hard to modify or build your own to this same configuration if that's what you really want.

BTW...before you say "nearly ALL" you should really take a look at Jackson's website...many of the Dinkys and Soloists come in an SSH configuration. 4 of the 11 currant Soloist models and 5 of the 14 currant Dinky models are SSH and -not- double fat. Of course, several of the Kramers are also SSH...the Focus 211S, Pacer 211S, Striker FR-422SM...all SSH. Hard to consider this as "nearly ALL". Ya might want to check your facts there dude the next time you decide to give folks another "update".

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Regardless, I don't see why the discussion has degraded to complete non-acceptance of others' opinions. My God, this is supposed to be a Fender community. It is even supposed to be fun. I guess just not for some...


I find that comment rather amusing. Originally I simply posted my own opinions as to why I felt that Mick Mars didn't really warrant a signature series and you appear to be the one who got all bent out of shape for it (please re-read your post that began with "Okay, it look likes we are back to the signature model as a lifetime-achievement-award thing ... yet again"). Then when I backed up my opinions with a little more substance and perhaps a few facts and others supported it, you seem to have gotten even more bent. Is it that people are allowed to have opinions...as long as they only agree with yours? Are you unable to express your own opinions with something more substantial than the proverbial stomping around and pouting because someone disagrees with you?

You think Mick Mars should have his own sig series...and that's fine...that's your opinion and you're certainly welcome to it. I happen to disagree and have provided a number of reasons as to why I disagree and I have tried to provide those reasons in a fairly rational and logical way. You on the other hand have resorted to being childish and rude with only a couple of inaccurate facts to support your reasons. If you're not having fun on this forum, then perhaps you should re-read your own posts and ask yourself "why?".

L8r


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Post subject: Re: Mick Mars Signature Strat
Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:21 pm
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morrissey wrote:
lomitus wrote:
dbone wrote:
When will we see a Mick Mars signature strat?


Personally I never thought that Yngwie really deserved to have a sig series, but at least Ive heard of him!
Jim


I disagree. Why would Yngwie not deserve to have a sig series? It's one of Fender's top signature sales. There's not a production model out there that comes stock with a full scalloped neck and to top it off, sells for the same price as other sig models in that range.


Please don't take this the wrong way. I actually agree that the Yngwie sig model is an interesting and unique instrument (I'd never own one myself, but that's a different issue...they are interesting though). I simply don't like Yngwie himself. To paraphrase a magazine which will remain nameless, Yngwie is one of the most "over-rated, under rated guitar players". Yea, the guy is fast, but to me, that's all there is to his playing. I will admit that I haven't listened to a lot of Yngwie stuff, but from what I've heard, his playing completely lacks any sense of dynamics, feel or emotion. It's all just a lot of notes played really fast. Other guys are certainly fast too...Stevie Vai for example. That guy is -quick- but his playing is also very dynamic and powerful as well. He knows where to put a single note and he knows where to put 100 notes. You want fast? Listen to some Al DiMeola...un-freakin-real as far as speed goes, but magnificent and beautiful music. I swear that guy must have 12 fingers on each hand! LOL!

Anyways, please don't take this personally...I have nothing against the specific instrument here, I just don't care for Yngwie himself.

Peace,
Jim


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Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:23 pm
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Seems like he got all defensive on a John Mayer post too.
I think it's time to move on.


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Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:24 pm
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I disagree with the comment that a sig shouldn't necessarily be a lifetime achievement award. it absolutely should.

A signature model should encompass 2 things (maybe there are more criteria to consider too,) 1st the player should be iconic. he/she should stand apart from even other stars, the acclaim should be graniose. 2nd the guitar itself should be somewhat unique in its own right. Of the Artist models a few have both these EC Blackie,SRV #1,Cray's stop tailpiece, even the EJ strat with its unique pickups, and very different from average neck. Some do not. I love Knopffler, but is his guitar actually different than a straight up reissue from that year would have been?

With Mars you get neither criteria. he is a skilled and loved musician, but he is in no way iconic, a man beyond his peers. And his guitar would in fact be nothing that couldn't be covered with a straight up reissue.

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Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:40 pm
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63supro wrote:
I think it's time to move on.


Ditto


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