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Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:50 pm
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I wouldnt worry about the neck pocket finished/unfinished dilema. If it was that important fender would mask the neck where it meets the unfinished body prior to lacquering. Even the EJ where he specified all sorts of unpainted areas has a completely lacquered neck.

I think i may adopt the lay flat to spray approach next time, someone else i know does it like that and says it helps produce a flatter application of paint.

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Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 5:04 pm
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nikininja wrote:
I think i may adopt the lay flat to spray approach next time, someone else i know does it like that and says it helps produce a flatter application of paint.


OK, but I should stress, don't lay that bod straight onto newspaper. The ink comes off onto your nice fresh lacquer and causes foul language to echo around.

What I'm doing is raising it slightly on a little block cushioned with soft fabric and doing a couple of coats in the morning, giving it several hours to harden a bit and then turning it over for two coats on the other side in the afternoon. Then hanging it up with the time honored coathanger-through-the-bolt-holes method.

There's a reason commercial companies don't work that way - you could never make money at it!

***

Twelvebar, I've been paying careful attention to what you have to say on this subject on several threads. You sound a like a fella who knows his eggs. I bet many of us would be delighted to see some of your work sometime (hint).

As to the thickness: no, I'm not in a competition. I'm going to do the finish as well and properly as I can - and only then see how it compares with Niki's Mexican polyester. I'm not at all obsessed with the thinskin thing, but on the other hand the thickness of those polyester finishes is a bit off-putting. We gotta hope this one comes in a bit better than that!

Who knows, maybe the difference won't be as much as we'd expect. A point of curiosity...

Cheers - C


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Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 5:12 pm
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Ceri wrote:

Twelvebar, I've been paying careful attention to what you have to say on this subject on several threads. You sound a like a fella who knows his eggs.

Hah I am strictly an amateur/enthusiast too, But i have learned a couple things(the hard way of coarse, by screwing up big-time!!). really , you seem to have as good a grasp on this as any of us amateurs.

For the Ibanez I am going to repaint (as soon as it warms up enough, i have to spray outside--in a home made spray booth--I'll take a picture of that too!) I plan on trying to make some kind of right angle clamp for my vise. I like the lay flat to spray idea, but i don't want to lay the body on anything, nor do I want to make temporary legs for the guitar, out of nails, like Fender used to.

I use a paint stick. You have more control of the body, its easier to move around and position. You don't have to worry about touching the body.
Like I say, I have to spray on my deck, in my paint booth/tent and then move the body inside and hang it.

P.S. it looks like you did excellent prep work. That is really so key. Anything you miss gets magnified once the finish cures.

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Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:51 pm
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Ceri wrote:
Uh-oh: I've received stern words from Orvilleowner.
Righto - I'll jump off my beach lounger (as if) and get on with it!


What a jerk that guy is, eh?

:lol:

Great progress, Ceri. I wish was there to give you a hand.

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Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:11 am
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Nice prep Ceri.....cant wait to see the final outcome and the clearcoat.

Btw how long did you let the primer to cure before you start another primer coating?As i have read that some builders let the primer to cure for weeks before sanding and another round of primer....

orvilleowner wrote:
I wish was there to give you a hand.

Wish i was there to record the process.....

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Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:30 am
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belphedeus wrote:
Btw how long did you let the primer to cure before you start another primer coating?As i have read that some builders let the primer to cure for weeks before sanding and another round of primer...


That's interesting; actually I haven't heard that. I don't think Orvilleowner would stand for it, do you? :lol:

(BTW: You'd all be extremely welcome to come and help - or just drink some beer and strum some guitars!)

Some people feel one coat needs to follow another within quite a small number of hours, in order to bond properly. There's a whole lot of stuff about artist's oil paint we really don't need to get into here. I believe with nitro's characteristic of it's solvent re-activating the previous layer I don't think it's much of an issue. Though I stand to be corrected.

For the record, the primer coats were done on successive days, the sanding taking place in the morning after, just before the next coat. I've read Don MacRostie suggesting that it is nice to sand within a couple of hours of spraying, to "break into" the drying coat and allow the solvent to evaporate faster. To me it feels overly soft when I try that: sanding the next day just feels better under the hand. But it's a fine point.

There will be a gap of about 48 hours between the primer and the first color coat. I'll then try to proceed to the final clear coat at a rate of two coats a day without a break - if I can!

Anyone have thoughts on the number of clear coats? There's such a range of opinion on that (like everything else)...

Cheers - C


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Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:22 am
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Ceri wrote:
For the record, the primer coats were done on successive days, the sanding taking place in the morning after, just before the next coat. I've read Don MacRostie suggesting that it is nice to sand within a couple of hours of spraying, to "break into" the drying coat and allow the solvent to evaporate faster. To me it feels overly soft when I try that: sanding the next day just feels better under the hand. But it's a fine point.

There will be a gap of about 48 hours between the primer and the first color coat. I'll then try to proceed to the final clear coat at a rate of two coats a day without a break - if I can!


That's something new i learn today....thks for sharing Ceri.

Btw Don Macrostie from Sch of Lutherie?....the mandolin guy...why him?Just curious.....

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Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:03 am
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Ceri, I've been away from the forums for a while and just saw your posting last night. First let me compliment you on the great work you've done, I can't wait to see the finished project. I was planning on doing a parts build this summer and you've given me some great information. Hope the guitar plays as well as the time and care you've put into it. Keep up the good work, I can't wait to see the final pictures.
filerj


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Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:16 am
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belph Don macrostie , along with dan erlewine did the Stew-mac videos on finishing guitars. he really knows his stuff.

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Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:23 am
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Twelvebar wrote:
belph Don macrostie , along with dan erlewine did the Stew-mac videos on finishing guitars. he really knows his stuff.


Oh thks Twelvebar....i like Dan's stuff and subscribe to Stew-Mac fortnight newsletter but i guess i didn't pay much attention on Don..... :D


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Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:02 am
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Hello Ceri,

Right you are the solvent based nitro
will re-activate previous layer{s}
forming a crosslink molecular bond
provided the paint is put on wet enough.
industrial pattern and modelmakers
when working with mohogany "may"
apply up to 20 coats in a week. bearing in mind
the majority of the paint is removed by
repetitive sanding, ususally every 3rd or 4th layer
3 clear coats usually ends the painting process.

That's what I know.

Cheers.


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Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:15 am
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Ceri - Does the lay-flat paint method lead to build up of overspray on the edges that would likely be hit when you paint each side? The sanding of the primer coats probably takes care of things but the finish paint and clear coats may not be so easy. Just curious if it's a problem or not.

It's been fun watching the process!!


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Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 6:24 am
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Just a friendly bump to keep this topic back at the top... :D

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Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:21 am
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belphedeus wrote:
Just a friendly bump to keep this topic back at the top... :D


...Or as a friendly way of saying, "Ceri, switch off the computer and get back round to the body shop for more spraying!" :lol:

BTW: to reply to a couple of points...

ckfoley wrote:
Ceri - Does the lay-flat paint method lead to build up of overspray on the edges that would likely be hit when you paint each side? The sanding of the primer coats probably takes care of things but the finish paint and clear coats may not be so easy. Just curious if it's a problem or not.


Hi ckfoley - you've done this before, haven't you? In fact, it's only the clear coats that have given me moments of difficulty with a run or two, due to the relative thinness of the lacquer without the color solids in it. Of course, gravity insists that's an issue no matter which way we orient the body while spraying it. I guess we could work as if it was an accoustic and do the sides, back and front seperately - but that's a tad long winded even for me!

Way I approach it, since the sides are getting sprayed each way up the guitar is laid they potentially receive twice as much lacquer as either side. Therefore it is OK to go particularly lightly on the sides and thereby hopefully avoid runs.

Of course, the theory doesn't always work out in practice...

I'm fascinated that possibly the most discussed aspect of this whole project is my placing the body flat for finishing. To take it further, I noticed that Stewart-MacDonald have recently brought out a stand for finishing bodies:

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Finishing_s ... ml#details

Obviously, that item is primarily meant to orient a body flat for finishing, though I guess you can rotate it so's the edges are upwards and do one side at a time if you want. Doesn't help with the ends, though. Here's a page where Erick Coleman uses the stand, mostly with the body held flat, by the look of it:

http://www.stewmac.com/tradesecrets/ts0 ... clk=192417

We know that's not how the big companies finish guitars - but then they have all kinds of facilities the rest of us can only dream about! Just to reiterate, I'm spraying the bod flat rather than hanging it up simply because I don't like the badly finished patches in the neck pocket other methods cause. And if that ain't neurotic I don't know what is!

Mr Bill wrote:
Right you are the solvent based nitro
will re-activate previous layer{s}
forming a crosslink molecular bond
provided the paint is put on wet enough.


Mr Bill, it is a couple of years since I last did a whole body with nitro. I'd almost forgotten some of the advantages - and disadvantages of cellulose. Cat owners beware!

And to filerj and everyone else - thank you for all your encouragement! Nearly there: more pictures tomorrow, barring some unforseen disaster...

Cheers - C


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Post subject: Quick side question
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:34 am
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This may be unrelated, but...

Similar to refinishing a car body, do you [can you, will you] wet sand the body to get the ultra-smooth finish? I've got the polishing kits that have 36000 grit polishing sandpapers that leave an amazing finish.

BTW, the body is amazing so far.

Shane~


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