Hey guys!

I remember some talk about guitarists saying that the 3-way switch in between positions sounded better than those positions on a 5 way switch

I believe in it, God knows why, and want to put in the 3-way that was originally in my guitar
The problem is, I have no clue as to how the the wiring should be, i.e. how to connect pickups, tone controls and the switch, I've looked on this site and as I see it, only the neck and middle pick up has tone controls when using the 3-way switch, can this be true, and does one of you have a better schematic than what's featured in the SUPPORT section?

And 1 more thing, what sort of paint do you think would work on a pickguard?

Looking forward to your posts

Hi Time-Machine: yes, we had a couple of long threads about the three- and five-way switches, didn't we? One of them went very off-topic...!

Strangely, I am not finding a nice wiring diagram out there for a three-way switch (though I haven't searched for hours). Seymour Duncan's site is usually good for this stuff, but not this time.

Now, I know you wanted one from somewhere other than this site, but amongst the diagrams on the Support pages is the American Vintage '57 which has a three-way. Seems like a good diagram to me...?

http://www.fender.com/support/diagrams/ ... 02BPg2.pdf

If you want the second tone knob to control the bridge pickup as well then I think it is the same tiny mod as on a five-way switch (someone will correct me if I'm wrong). You need to add a 5 mm piece of wire between the middle two switch tags facing the pots, as on this diagram for the American Standard:

http://www.fender.com/support/diagrams/ ... 02APg2.pdf

Hope that all works for you.

Far as lacquer is concerned, I wonder if automotive acrylic based paint might be the best for bonding to the plastic of a pickguard? I have no knowledge whether nitrocellulose would work or not, though I don't really see why not.

I'd roughen up the plastic with 300 or 400 grit sandpaper first, to create a "tooth" for the paint to adhere to. (Unless you are following Mr Bill's idea of painting the underside of a clear 'guard. I don't know if sanding marks would spoil the look in that case...)

What's the project?

Also. I know Denmark a bit (relatives). Care to mention where you live?

Good luck - C

Thx for the reply Ceri!

Found the schematics you've posted, guess that'll do

Now I only have to figure out what to paint

I live in Gladsaxe, just outside Copenhagen

The project is:
I've grown a bit tired of the look of a tortoise shell pickguard on my white strat, and have a spare white pg.
But there's a problem, a brand new white pickguard on a creamy relic strat would look like $@!&! (For some reason all the hardware is brand new though it's a relic, and yes I have done the research, it's real, genuine and serials tells it's a relic, and I know that nothing except the pickguard and 3-way switch has been replaced)
So I figured the coolest solution would be to paint something on the pickguard myself Imagine that, a CS relic, with non relic'ed hardware and a homepainted pickguard, that's got to be one of a kind!!

this one is also config for 3 way swich

http://www.fender.com/support/diagrams/ ... 02APg2.pdf

_________________
(80’s Hair Metal) = A snapshot in time before Grunge ruined Rock & Roll forever!!!!

This Urban Legend will never die, it seems.

The 3-way switch and the 5-way switch are identical electrically. They are wired exactly the same way. The only difference between the 3-way switch and the 5-way switch is that the 5-way switch has two additional detent positions where the switch lever can stop. One is between the bridge and middle positions, and one is between the middle and neck positions.

The switch is a make-before-break switch. That means that for a brief portion of the switch's throw from bridge to middle, for example, both pickups are connected in parallel. Similar for the other position. Guitarists noticed this and liked what they heard, so they hot-rodded the switch by filing the two new detent positions. When Fender got word of this they just had the switches made with the two new detent positions in place. Voila, instantaneous 5-way switch.

But there is absolutely no difference electrically. None. Zip. Nada.

And yet guitarists have deluded themselves into thinking that there is an actual sonic difference. But it's all just mass hysteria.

_________________
James Burton Upgrade Telecaster
Hot Rodded Am Fat Strat Texas Special (now featuring Kinman Traditional II pickups)
Fender Blues Jr.
SWR California Blonde
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Hi soggycrow: I think several of us were quietly pleased when you said that on the other threads. Helped reassure us our ears weren't missing something. But I guess there'll always be some who just get a kind of retro kick out of shoving that little bit of matchstick in there to hold a three-way switch "in between". So why not?

***

Time-Machine, do you mean that you intend to paint a picture on a pickguard? If so, that's great and I'd think seriously about doing the job properly and making one that will last.

I'd get a piece of three layer plywood (beech would be good) and carefully manufacture your own pickguard out of it. Mask the edges (to leave a Fender three-ply effect) then ground it with artist's acrylic primer and paint your picture using acrylic paints from tubes. You can use artist grade acrylic very thin like watercolor (aquarelle), which would be good: you don't want thick "impasto" brush strokes for this job.

Then clearcoat over the top with many layers of acrylic lacquer: you can buy it easily in an aerosol from a car paint supplier. You need to get that clearcoat reasonably thick so's you can then wet-sand it absolutely mirror flat without breaking into the painting below.

Et voila! An ultimate custom pickguard.

Or did you have something completely different in mind...?

Cheers - C

Good point, BUT, if there's no tone control on the bridge pick up the wiring is different from how it is now and then it's not exactly the same electronically, at least not to me

This thread could lead to something VERY interesting

@Ceri

Nope, that was what I had on my mind, I just have to decide on what the image is gonna be

Well, I'm putting in the switch anyways for the retro-kick and mass hysteria mentioned above just like I use the 'Grolsch mod'

Well, according to the "Switching Control Diagram", the Yngwie Sig Series uses a 3 way switch, but looking at the schematic, the connections on the back of the switch appear to be the same as a 5 way. If the three way you are using is different, I'd contact the manufacturer of the switch (and/or the place you purchased it from) for a specific diagram. Here's the link to the Malmstien stuff here at Fender...

http://www.fender.com/support/diagrams/ ... 02APg4.pdf

http://www.fender.com/support/diagrams/ ... 02APg2.pdf



Personally, I wouldn NOT paint a plastic pick guard at all...at least not if all you are trying to do is change colors or something. If you are having someone air brush something special on it for you, that's certainly different but typically when you paint a pick guard, it really just doesn't look right to begin (paint doesn't have the same gloss as plastic) with and over time, the paint will crack and chip as the paint hardens on the plastic. Seriously, if you want a "custom pick guard", look around on Ebay and such....there's lot of folks that sell some really sweet looking pick guards and they're not usually all that expensive.

Just my $.02 worth,
Jim

Ah, indeed; good point. We never considered whether this is a Fender type switch or not. If it is one of those with all the tags on one side then all bets are off. Those ones always make my head hurt (I'm pretty dumb at this stuff...).

Time-Machine, if it is indeed a picture you are painting then what lomitus says is important. It will flake in time which would be a pity if you did a lot of work. Make a PG out of wood and prime it properly; and do a job that will last.

And show us pics! It's gonna be great!

Cheers - C

PS Spent most time in Denmark in the Esbjerg area and also Arhus and Odense, but been to Copenhagen too: very nice! I am also hot to visit Roskilde - for the ships...

I had considered doing the switch mod on my Strat, but wasn't sure it was worth it.A friend and I did a simple test, about 10 or so years ago that no one seems to take into account on these debates. First we started with 2 strats, one with a 3-way and mine with a 5-way switch. We used the same amp, same settings.

We did the comparison, and found my 94 strat sounded better than his 80's (why it had a 3 way switch we don't know, we think his uncle put it in because he thought the 3-way was better.) But we also decided that my strat sounded better at every pickup selection. So we recorded some samples, with both guitars at each setting. then we swapped the switches.
We then recorded again, and did some A/B tests. Again my guitar turned out to be the favorite, at all the settings, not just the mid ones. The tonal difference was too small for either of us to determine blind. Though we could easily tell the 2 strats apart.

Overall conclusion we had was that the 3-way is a myth, possibly perpetuated by comparing vintage(and thus aged-in,) instruments with newer ones, not taking into account their superior tone at all positions of the selector switch.

The only thing about the pickguard is that it has to be painted by ME, my guitar, my pickguard, my paintjob But I believe you're right and I think I'll do it as Ceri described, make a plywood pickguard and paint that instead

The 3-way switch I'm talking about is the original 3 way switch that came with my guitar, the previous owner had it replaced with the 5-way that comes along with 3-way switch Fender's

Two different guitars will always sound different. But the difference is not related to the switch. Now, in my earlier post I said that the 3-way and 5-way switches were wired the same. I wasn't talking about volume and tone pots. Just the switches. And I suppose I should qualify this to say that I'm talking about the conventional switch wiring for the original Stratocast - bridge, middle, and neck. If you have some other wiring arrangment then all bets are off.

_________________
James Burton Upgrade Telecaster
Hot Rodded Am Fat Strat Texas Special (now featuring Kinman Traditional II pickups)
Fender Blues Jr.
SWR California Blonde
Pedals Pedals Pedals

heh that was kinda my point.

The point was my guitar sounded better than his, to both our ears. So we decided that we had to check the different switches out in the SAME guitar, to get a true reading. If we only compared the matchstick positions on his guitar against the corresponding ones on my guitar, we felt we would have the result be marred by our favoritism of my guitars tone.

I guess I wasn't clear enough. We recorded some stuff with my guitar stock (5-way) then we pulled the switch and put in his 3 way and recorded the same stuff again.We actually did it in both guitars His after, just for confirmation and fun.. Our consensus was that 3-way or 5-way didn't affect the sound of either.

+1 Here

I don't hear any difference between three way switches and the identical pup configurations on their 5 way counterparts ....

Actually I prefer positions two and four on the 5 way switch anyway....maybe i'm biased... ....
Cheers
HS