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Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:51 am
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Doc, the quick answer is that the strats problems come from its scale length as much as they do the nut or upper fret taper. My theory behind this is that string mass reacts with string tension when a string is fretted. So when you fret the low frets of the B or E strings, a string of little mass with high tension has its tension increased more than the mass of the string can compensate for. Compare this to the A or low E strings that have high mass and little tension. They stay intoned fairly well or drop very slightly flat of their fretted notes. (The slight flattening of such notes can often be more favourable to our ears.) The tension is increased when the string is fretted but the mass of the string easily compensates for it.
Add again to this phenomenon the way top end frets taper down, when you fret the upper registers string tension is increased further where you play the strings that are most susceptible to intonation problems. Its also why slide players never suffer intonation problems.

I believe its a inherent problem to all guitars noticed on strats for two main reasons.
1 the scale length of a strat leads to higher string tension.
2 strats are incredibly playable in the upper registers, where i find some guitars to be lacking in access. Particularly les pauls where i struggle to get past the 15th fret.

I believe increasing action height leads to better intonation through the strings reaching a more uniform tension to mass ratio across the strings from Estring to Estring.

I could well be wrong about any of that its just a theory i've got kicking around in my head at the moment. Nobody has cracked it yet. Every bit helps though.

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Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:07 pm
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That theory would work true regards claptons set up too. As you have previously stated his neck is super straight and setup to a uniform 1/8th" action from the 1st to 22nd frets. That would suggest to me a custom made neck/fingerboard/fretjob. His strings would maintain the same tension right the way up the board. So he tunes the high E first fret to F and hey presto he's a lot nearer true F +1oct at the 13th fret than any of us will ever be. Its also another reason why we cant buy 'as for EC' guitars. You couldnt have whatever tricks they pull falling into the hands of the opposition.

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Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:34 pm
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[quote="nikininja"] My observations on the setup are solely from his comment in Duchossoir's book and a comment which Alex Aguilar made to me in passing many years ago. We've never seen his guitars photographed from the side. NEVER! Close....but no cigar.

I'd given some thought to scale length and the complexity of the individual bridge saddle. I discarded the issue of frethand attack because it never happens with my Les Paul. Apparently the Tune-o-matic bridge sets up the guitar differently and there are, of course, no intonation issues being a hardtail. However, the Clapton, with the blocked trem is effectively that which gives more weight to your other considerations.

We'll see what transpires over time. It may take me 6-8 weeks to work this through with time constraints being what they are but I will keep you all posted on the progress.

Doc :wink:

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Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:40 pm
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I think the shorter scale length on gibsons makes for less stretch on fretted notes. Although gibsons do suffer in the lower registers as much as any other guitar.

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Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:11 pm
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alright i'm taking the guitar to a sam ash tomorrow and i'll let everybody know how it goes. i was wondering if i could replace the pickguiard with a white pearl replacement i have. is this difficult? i would give it to an expert, but i don't want to pay extra to disassemble a few screws and wires that i could easily do myself. i'm assuming pickup height will be fixed along with the setup so i just wanted to do it myself. any thoughts?


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Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:18 pm
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Doc. I'm surprised that you had intonation problems with your DG right out of the box. That was one of the first things I checked when I got mine and knock on wood it seems to be set right. Maybe I'm just not smart enough to tell the subtle differences but I'm using a pretty expensive strobe in line tuner. I haven't checked it in a while so I guess I should get it out of the case occasionally and play it ! :lol:


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Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:02 pm
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fhopkins wrote:
Doc. I'm surprised that you had intonation problems with your DG right out of the box. That was one of the first things I checked when I got mine and knock on wood it seems to be set right. Maybe I'm just not smart enough to tell the subtle differences but I'm using a pretty expensive strobe in line tuner. I haven't checked it in a while so I guess I should get it out of the case occasionally and play it ! :lol:


The tuning was perfect. The strings were choking above the 12th fret and the problem did not resolve until I raised the height of the saddles to the limit of the adjustment screws and reintonated them.

I'm thinking of restringing these guitars with 9's and seeing what happens. That ties into niki's take on the problem. Using a lighter string might obviate the scale and tension issues.

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Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:07 pm
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Keep us informed if you don't mid Doc! Good luck! :wink:


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