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Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 7:10 pm
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poeman wrote:
If it floats at all, any open strings that are playing will go out of pitch when you play other strings...which is why I want it flush. Fender states you can set it up floating or flush, but their instructions on setup don't mention anything different you have to do when setting it up flush. A quick bend, or pull up of the strings will put it right again...but there must be a setup trick to avoid that somehow. The fact that the locking tuner and LSR nut will keep it perfectly in tune with agressive tremolo when floating means it does the job it was designed to do. I have a Floyd Rose on another guitar and it doesn;t make any difference whether it is floating or not. The principle is a little different of course, as both ends are locked on the Floyd...but since the top is locked with the locking tuners on the Fender and the LSR nut stops binding on the Fender tremolo now...why would floating and flush make such a difference?


Poeman, the difference is that on a floyd system the string goes from nut to bridgesaddle. the machineheads dont come into the equation once the guitar is tuned and locked down. Even then you constantly rely on the knife edges and posts of the bridge to be in decent condition. They can deteriorate fast.
On a traditional bridge setup, even with locking tuners. The string catches on the nut, saddle, and string tree. You need the back pressure of a balanced floating trem to help eliminate that. Locking machines were never designed to replace the locking nut. They are more along the lines of 'super fast string changes, without the endless windings'. Its the lack of windings that improves tuning stability.
The tremsetter sorts all the problems of bend one string and the others go flat, and it makes sure the guitars bridge returns back to its set point too.

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Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:13 am
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69smokey69 wrote:
This is all great information, and thanks to all who answered.

I still have my original question though, unless I missed it somewhere in the shuffle...is the Wilk a floating trem or no? I've heard it both ways.

Thanks again.


Didn't mean to hijack your forum question there...sorry about that...

The Wilkinson comes in different styles, so there is not one answer. You can get it in the six screw Vintage style. In that case, it would not be setup floating. It would be setup just like a standard Fender Vintage. They way Fender suggests is to have about a 1/16 to 1/8 gap at the back when tuned to pitch. Many of the great guitarists set a Vintage style up flush however. Pull ups are a no-no on a vintage.

If it is the two screw variety, like a modern Fender setup, then you set it up floating. You would set it up parallel to the body.

They also make a Floyd Rose style. This would be setup floating as well. Parallel to the body. These two styles would give me my headache of having the open strings go out of pitch when I bend notes. My Strat is just too nice as it is and I don't want to alter it in any way. I have other guitars I can tinker with.


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Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:38 am
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[quote="poeman"][quote="69smokey69"]Pull ups are a no-no on a vintage.


It's just that movement which I believe the Jeff Beck Signature Stratocaster's trem was designed to do, in comparison with the other Strats.

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Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:55 am
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poeman wrote:
Pull ups are a no-no on a vintage.


I can't say that I've heard that before.

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Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 11:53 am
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orvilleowner wrote:
poeman wrote:
Pull ups are a no-no on a vintage.


I can't say that I've heard that before.


From the Callaham website:
Quote:
I recommend a minimum of 4 springs for the bridges. They should be set so that if you are doing double stop bends, the guitar remains at pitch. This means the top plate will have a slight pressure against the body. Sorry no pull ups with a vintage bridge, unless you can live with pitch problems.

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Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:26 pm
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I guess I have proven that I can live with the pitch problems.

I've over 30 years of floating and pulling up!

When I do double stops, I'm usually bending them anyway, so I'm able to correct the pitch without even knowing I'm doing it. I never realized I had pitch problems!!!

Maybe I ought to turn down the Marshalls and listen to what I'm playing. :lol:

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Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:53 pm
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orvilleowner wrote:
Maybe I ought to turn down the Marshalls and listen to what I'm playing. :lol:


That....or turn up your 'Belltones' :!: :idea: :P

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Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:53 pm
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orvilleowner wrote:
I guess I have proven that I can live with the pitch problems.

I've over 30 years of floating and pulling up!

When I do double stops, I'm usually bending them anyway, so I'm able to correct the pitch without even knowing I'm doing it. I never realized I had pitch problems!!!

Maybe I ought to turn down the Marshalls and listen to what I'm playing. :lol:


I've done both for years too...I just prefer not having to adjust. And I do think it sounds different floating vs flush. A subtle difference, but it's there. And whatever you do, don't turn down your Marshalls!


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Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 6:14 pm
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poeman wrote:
I just like to be able to bend the strings (alot) and have the open strings ring out when I am doing this and stay at the same note.


I don't ever do that. So I don't have your problem.

But I do like to hit a high harmonic and then use the bar to raise the pitch!

Everybody's got to figure out what they like in their Strat trem set up.

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Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:55 pm
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can anyone shed a little light on the tonal differances that they have found with the floyd flat mounted to the body?...mine currently floats and the tinnyness is a little irritating I'm hoping some of you can share some insight on this.


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Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:26 pm
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If it has a floating trem I say let it float as it was made to do. Just set it up right and there no problem. There are guitars with hardtails.

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Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 6:55 pm
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I'm considering switching the trem block this could be where to start?


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Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:37 pm
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orvilleowner wrote:
I guess I have proven that I can live with the pitch problems.

I've over 30 years of floating and pulling up!



I've never had a problem with my vintage bridges floating either, aside from it going all wonky when a string breaks, but then I've never broken a string at a gig, so it doesn't really matter.

But close inspection on David Gilmour's strat's show his are floating as did Jeff Beck's older strats with the vintage trem. Same with Blackmore's. With proper set up it's totally achievable.

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Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 2:35 am
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orvilleowner wrote:
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To Float or Not to Float...That is a Question?


Why not try it both ways and see what you like the best.

Personally, I am a floater.
I'm a non-floater. Like Big O says try both ways to see what floats or not floats your boat. :) :wink:


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Post subject: flush/floating - no real change in tone, so far to me anyway
Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 2:45 am
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zzdoc wrote:
69smokey69 wrote:

From another point of view: find yourself a properly set up Jeff Beck Signature Series Stratocaster. That trem is designed to perform differently. You might find that it suits your needs and playing style.


i had a '94 Strat Plus - similar to the JBEck model in that it had an LSR roller nut , plus the PLus had a tremsetter installed by default

it did really well (floating or flush) - the only Strat i have ever seen actually hold up under up to moderate vibrato use

with my current 3 guitars which all have the vintage bridge setup (bone nuts) , i don't even bother to use the vibrato bar at all becuase they just don't stay in tune - it's kinda ok floating , if you pull back up it will sometimes snap back into tune - so i have 5 springs in each of the 3 guitars with a flush bridge <no whammy action at all, the arm isn't even in place>

sometimes i miss whamming around but overall it's cool

if i really wanted back vibrato action again, i'd go with a floyd setup - something you can take all over with no worries, but i'm not into that style of playing anymore so it's cool

btw - setting the bridge flush did NOT affect the sound of my 3 Strat's (one of them has always been flush, the EJ, but the other two which are CS '56 adn '54 models wer floating and I set them up flush - no loss / change in tone as some folks notice, maybe it's just a picky thing to notice ...)

i do think going to a hard tail like the Cray would have an impact on the overall tone, but never tried one, never had the chance, i'd like to check one out


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